Jafrikayiti wrote:I'll have you notice that many of the "technocrats" who are wasting their credit in this puppet regime have made the same analysis as yourself. I.e. to hell with sovereignty, let us focus on "improving life conditions".. And what is the result? Have they improved anything?
Padel wrote:A-The fight that Haitians are facing today is much bigger than the return of JBA. It is a fight for self- determination. At this stage, we need to find COMMON GROUND to move on. That's it. Common ground that we all share to lift the country out of this mess.
jmflorestal wrote:...We fought the independence war <U>not because in our minds it was the most important achievment for our happiness</U>, but because colonization was dehumanizing and would have ended destroying who we really are as human beings.
Gelin wrote:jmflorestal wrote:
...We fought the independence war not because in our minds it was the most important achievment for our happiness, but because colonization was dehumanizing and would have ended destroying who we really are as human beings.
Are you re-writting the whole thing?
jmflorestal wrote:...One of the many interesting things Maslow noticed <U>while he worked with monkeys</U> early in his career, was that some needs take precedence over others." Assuming that is true, I ventured to say that sovereignty is probably a lower priority for <U>the masses of haitian poors</U> who are suffering daily from hunger and other lack of necessities, since sovereignty may fall between either need #3 and need #4.
Gelin wrote:JM, how do we jump from a man's work with monkeys to the needs and struggles of the haitian poors? Can his observation on monkeys be applied to humans just like that? Or are the masses of haitan poors close to the monkeys in their behaviors and the way they identify and express their needs?
Gelin wrote:While I agree with you that needs must be prioritized, and they have been, sovereinty is the top priority for any nation because without it all you have is a bunch of people living on a land that they have no control over. That's why we talk about t
he palestinian people and not the palestinian state. Prior to 1948, we had the jewish people scaterred all over the world (even in Haiti) and not the nation of Israel. Maybe that's also why the term 'failed state' has been used by many to describe the current or future (?) situation of Haiti. According to that view, while the haitan people will remain, the haitian nation may disintegrate and disappear altogether.
"Haiti's biggest problem today is not the loss of sovereignty, even though that is a serious issue also. Haiti's biggest problem today is economic collapse that comes together with hunger, misery, hopelessness, inexistant healthcare, chaos, etc.
I believe Haiti's biggest problem has always been its lack of sovereignty. And this greatly explains the mess that we are in now. Our priorities should never be set by others. The economic collapse therefore may be seen as a direct result of failed policies dictated by those who created their priorities in our name.
Jafrikayiti wrote:Considering the dire situation of Black South-Africans, (I do not have the stats in front of me but they are really scary (poverty, number of people dying of AIDS etc...), would you suggest that they should trade the sovereinty they fought for, in order to find help dealing with these problems?
I have two fundamental problems with your argument:
1) Somehow, I sense this assumption that - by not fighting to regain sovereignty - the solution to poverty and its associates will "appear" in Haiti. You have not told us how or why? Where is the connection?
jmflorestal wrote:...The reason the haitian people supported the movement of the Lavalas party is because it gave them hope that it will improve their conditions. The victory of the party failed to improve their conditions and even worsened them.
Gelin wrote: - why do the poors still support the ideology if their living conditions got worse under it?
Gelin wrote:2 - knowing that the party failed to improve the conditions of the haitian people, why is it then that the opposition did not simply go to the elections and remove the failing team?
The opposition provided no new ideas and no new alternatives. An opposition has an important role to play. But, in Haiti, opposition is saying "the current one is wrong, put me instead." It is supposed to be a competition for better ideas. The opposition did not provide any alternative other than saying that Lavalas was no good. That is why even when Lavalas was not executing well their program, the opposition had difficulty getting majority support.
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