Preval /Alexis En Voyage, Le Kidnapping Fait Rage

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Michel Nau_

Preval /Alexis En Voyage, Le Kidnapping Fait Rage

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:25 pm

Le président René Préval a laissé aujourd'hui le pays à destination de Cuba. Le chef de l'Etat haitien et d'autres dignitaires étrangers, dont le bolivien Evo Morales le président élu du Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega, assisteront aux cérémonies marquant la célébration du 80e anniversaire du Président cubain Fidel Castro qui ont débuté mardi.

En raison de la détérioration de l'état de santé du " Lider Maximo", les festivités qui devaient normalement débuter le 13 août dernier, jour de son 80e anniversaire de naissance avaient dû être reportées. 2000 personnalités politiques, artistiques, intellectuelles et sportives prendront part à cette commémoration qui prendra fin le 2 décembre prochain.

Répondant aux questions des journalistes à l'aéroport international Toussaint Louverture, le président de la République a reconnu que le phénomène de kidnapping avait pris ces derniers temps de l'ampleur dans la capitale. Il a néanmoins affirmé que la PNH avait réalisé des avancées dans le combat contre le banditisme à Port-au-Prince. « La route de l'aéroport qui était occupée par des bandits est maintenant sécurisée, a-t-il dit. La police est maintenant à Cité Soleil et à Pelé. »

M. Préval a annoncé un renforcement de la PNH en personnel et en équipements afin de freiner le phénomène de l'insécurité « Plus de 500 policiers vont être gradués le 15 décembre prochain, a-t-il déclaré. Des matériels vont être sous peu octroyés à la police. »

En début de semaine, le Premier ministre Jacques-Edouard Alexis a laissé le pays à destination de l'Espagne afin de participer à la conférence de suivi des bailleurs de fonds sur Haiti.
Les deux plus hautes personnalités de l'Etat sont donc à l'extérieur du pays au moment où Port-au-Prince fait face à une recrudescence des enlèvements.
Alors que l'onde de choc de l'assassinat de Farah Desssources et du petit Carl Rubens Francillon se fait toujours sentir à Port-au-Prince, on apprend que l'agronome Fred Joseph, ancien ministre de l'Economie et des Finances sous le premier mandat de Préval, a été enlevé, hier soir, au volant de sa voiture sur la route de Frères.

Pour le moment, rien ne semble vouloir freiner les bandits. L'enlèvement, hier mercredi, de Solène Romain un prêtre catholique, de Charles Warne, un missionnaire américain, et de Schubert Alexis, un ancien sénateur du centre, peut en témoigner.

Le Nouvelliste 11/30/2006

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:10 pm

Les Duvaliers père, et fils ont passe près de 30 ans au pouvoir, et n'ont pas pu laisser le pays par crainte de coup d'état, malgré une forte cargaison de macoutes et des Léopards. Preval et Alexis peuvent sans inquiétude laisser le pays en même temps et le cœur pose.

L'enlèvement, hier mercredi, de Solène Romain un prêtre catholique, de Charles Warne, un missionnaire américain, et de Schubert Alexis, un ancien sénateur du centre, peut en témoigner. En début du mois de Novembre, une fillette, et un petit garçon ont trouve la mort. Un ancien ministre de l'Economie et des Finances a été enlevé.

Est-ce que ces messieurs font la pluie et le bon temps et peuvent semer la terreur à tous les niveaux, politique, social, économique, et religieuse ?

Est-ce que l'insécurité/kidnapping de Preval/Alexis une nouvelle forme de Macoutism moderne ??

Michel

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Post by admin » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:11 am

Michel Nau,

Mwen remake oumenm ak Stanley Lucas fè youn nan denonse gouvènman ayisyen an pou zafè ensekirite/kidnapping lan. Se byen, mesye, mwen wè n'ap defann bagay serye. Men sepandan mwen gen 3 ti kesyon pou nou:


1) "Self-interest"
Ki enterè Preval/Alexis genyen nan anlèvman Solène Romain, Charles Warne, Schubert Alexis, Fred Joseph? Ki enterè Preval/Alexis genyen nan sansinay Farah Desssources ak Carl Rubens Francillon (lapè pou nanm yo!)? Mesye, se Washington nou ye, mwen si e sèten pa gen moun ki konprann sans mo "self-interest" la plis ke noumenm!! Kidonk, pale m de sa.

Gen anpil lòt moun ki pale sou enkonpetans ou enkapasite gouvènman ayisyen an nan jere debak sa kap pase anba je nou la an Ayiti (pandanstan menm yon gè sivil tèt kale deklanche nan Irak). Men ak kesyon ou poze yo ("Est-ce que ces messieurs font la pluie et le bon temps et peuvent semer la terreur à tous les niveaux..." epi "Est-ce que l'insécurité/kidnapping de Preval/Alexis une nouvelle forme de Macoutism moderne ??") se pa de enkonpetans ak enkapasite w'ap pale ankò. Li klè tankou dlo kòk ou chanje vitès kounyè a. Paske, ak sa ou ekri la, ou prezante gouvènman ayisyen kòm aktè prensipal e enterese nan ensekirite a (e non pa senpman kòm responsab sekirite jeneral nan peyi a dapre Konstitisyon an)!!! Dimwen, se konsa mwen entèprete sa ou ekri la. Si mwen mal entèprete sa ou ekri a, fè mwen konnen vit e prese, li pa nan enterè pa-m pou mwen fè sa. Men ak entelijans Bondye ban mwen an, se sa mwen wè ki degaje nan pawòl ou ekri anlè yo.

Sepandan, si mwen pa mal entèprete, di-m plis sou enterè Preval/Alexis nan koze sa. Se lè nou atikile "self-interest" sa sèlman, agiman tèt anba ou prezante a kab kòmanse pran yon ti koulè.


2) Eske feblisman gouvènman ayisyen an (e "à la limite" sa menm vle di yon lòt rebelyon nan peyi a ankò pou gouvènman Preval/Alexis a bat dèyè li, sètadi yon lòt koudeta ankò) pral ede rezoud fleyo kinapping kap fèt an Ayiti?

M'ap mande tèt mwen si nou pa wè enstabilite tout enstitisyon pouvwa nan peyi a gen yon rapò dirèk ak dejenerasyon sosyal la. M'ap mande tèt mwen...

Epi tou... "Macoutism moderne" lan, ki moun kap pratike li tout bon nan 21èm syèk la???


3) Bon, kite priyè pran kantik. Di mwen, Michel ak ekip Washington lan, si nou te prezidan/premye minis, kouman noumenm nou tap rezoud pwoblèm kidnapping lan? Jiskaprezan sèl bagay mwen wè nou pwopoze se "Show them the punishment!" Men èske gen plis nannan nan pwogram nou an. Paske "show them the punishment" se bagay m'ap tande depi mwen ti katkat.

From word to action, there's got to be a plan! Just what is yours?

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Coup D'etat folks have no plan, just revel in destabalizing

Post by Ezili Danto » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:57 pm

Onè e respè Guy,
e La Sosyete:

If folks like Stanley Lucas had a plan, beyond destabilizing and advocating genocide (Lucas is inspired by Rwanda), or beyond Washington's neoliberalism debt, dependency and domination policies, Haitians would have lived differently these last three years. Coup d'etat means the destruction of legal leadership and the decimation of law and order. That's what Lucas stands for and practices. Nothing else. Right now, his sights are on criticizing Preval and Alexis to the same end as his criticisms of Aristide. It's futile to expect a change of color there. Washington "Democracy enhancement" folks like Lucas or Johanna Mendelson of the UN/USAID/USIP are only about imposing on Haiti the image of "failed," "incompetence" or as more succinctly put by Ms. Mendelson Haiti as "a menace to its neighbors. "

Nothing different may be expected from these folks. As Jaf consistently and correctly points out, they are doing their jobs - that of poverty pimps posing as Santa Claus. And, as HLLN has indicated in Legacy of Impunity, "The Neocolonialists inciting political instability is Haiti's main problem. It is this political instability that is responsible for the legacy of impunity, endemic poverty and violence in Haiti. Otherwise, Haiti is underdeveloped in crime, corruption and violence, compared to other nations."
http://www.margueritelaurent.com/pressc ... unity.html

(See, also, IRI's former head man, Stanley Lucas, inspired by Rwanda, ; and, Edwidge Lalanne says 5% of the population (450,000) of Site Soley should be physically eliminated (in French) and
ohanna Mendelson, UN/USAID/USIP consultant says Haiti is a menace to its neighbors, , Oct. 25, 2006 Alterpress (in French) )

Michelnau,
in terms of kidnapping, why do you coup d'etat folks ignore the role of the top Haitian police chief, Michael Lucius, in kidnappings since his illegal appointment in March of 2004. Weren't you folks in control then? How come most of these unconstitutional folks were about corruption and crimes, worst than anything under the Aristide/Neptune government they helped kill thousands of Haitian civilians and officials, to ouster?

Police Chief, Michael Lucius, who is accused of corruption, kidnappings and other crimes, resigns (Note: There's no Haiti "Washington Democracy Project" outcry or protest tracts for Michael Lucius' arrest!) Where's the international uproar, Michelnau, for Lucius' arrest, for Jean Tatoute, Guy Phillipe, Louis Jodel Chamblain, or Lame Timanchet's "to be punished!" Where's the Edwidge Lalanne demand for the physical extermination of these known and convicted criminals? What say you on this Michelnau? Where's the outrage, when Lalanne of Haiti Democracy Project, calls for the physical elimination, the extra-judicial execution of 5% (perhaps as high as 5% of 450,000) of the population of Site Soley? (See, HLLN's comments on the Edwidge Lalanne Declaration to exterminate 5% of Site Soley )


What say you about kidnappings, Michelnau, as reported in these HLLN links on kidnappings below. How are these the sole reponsibility of Preval/Alexis?


Kidnapping: An arrest that deeply challenges the conventional wisdom


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Complicite des proches des Victims

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Kidnapper arrested linked to wealthy families working with Lame Timanchèt


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DCPJ Director, Michael Lucius implicated in Kidnappings


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Michael Lucius - Top (coup d'etat) Haitian police officer indicted for kidnapping

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Last year, after another Lame Timanchèt massacre, wealthy Arab businessmen Handal was arrested. Is there a connection to the two kidnappers just arrested linked to wealthy families working withLame Timanchèt arrested this year after the July 7 Timanchèt massacre?

***************

Both Lame Timanchèt and UN say their job in Haiti is to kill "bandits": The failures of the UN and Haitian Police Chief, Mario Andresol

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Lame Timanchèt: The DDR Fiasco, Matisan Video Clips - Clip 1 begging forgiveness, Clip2 - interview with Sason; Clip3 - Peace turn false

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A former Finance Minister has been kidnapped in Port-au-Prince (Perhaps, as a warning to Preval/Alexis, reports AHP...)


***
Ezili Danto Witness Project covers Wyclef in Site Soley


Site Soley united, wants peace. Why is UN attacking Site Soley, and not equally applying DDR. Meanwhile, UN allows gross human rights violators, such as, Guy Phillipe, a DEA suspected and accused drug-traffiker and a known coup d'etat assassin of countless Constitutional government sympathizers, officials, police officers and civilians along with Jean Tatoute, a convicted gang leader, and Louis Jodel Chamblain, formerly second-in-command of the bloody FRAPH paramilitary organization condemned for its role in the murders of thousands of people during the 1991 military coup d'etat against President Aristide, to all roam free and heavily armed in Haiti with no UN sanctions nor are they condemned by any international outcry.

*********************


We are Not Kidnappers
Interview of Site Soley Youth Activist in Haiti: "We did not kidnap the UN soldier as reported. The UN wants war in order to stay in Haiti, May 22, 2006, Ezili Danto Witness Project (English translation & Kreyol Audio)


Original Kreyol Audio of Interview: 'We are Not kidnappers" (Info on General Toutou and Amaral)


See Update on Site Soley and Police relationship, Haitian police make goodwill visit to slum, Oct 3, 2006



***********

Michenau, ou ekri:[quote]Preval et Alexis peuvent sans inquiétude laisser le pays en même temps et le cœur pose.

L'enlèvement, hier mercredi, de Solène Romain un prêtre catholique, de Charles Warne, un missionnaire américain, et de Schubert Alexis, un ancien sénateur du centre, peut en témoigner. En début du mois de Novembre, une fillette, et un petit garçon ont trouve la mort. Un ancien ministre de l'Economie et des Finances a été enlevé.

Est-ce que ces messieurs font la pluie et le bon temps et peuvent semer la terreur à tous les niveaux, politique, social, économique, et religieuse ?

Est-ce que l'insécurité/kidnapping de Preval/Alexis une nouvelle forme de Macoutism moderne ??[/quote]

In view of the Haitian reality we have all historically lived, in view of the Haitian realites in referenced to kidnappings as outlined in the articles linked above, how can you, Michelnau, honestly point to Preval/Alexis, as the "nouvelle" catalysts, the harbingers for the insecurity and kidnappings in Haiti?, as the harbingers of "Macoutism" in Haiti??!!!

Ezili Dantò
La rouze fè banda toutan soley pa leve

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:38 pm

Guy ekri :[quote]se pa de enkonpetans ak enkapasite w'ap pale ankò. Li klè tankou dlo kòk ou chanje vitès kounyè a. Paske, ak sa ou ekri la, ou prezante gouvènman ayisyen kòm aktè prensipal e enterese nan ensekirite a[/quote]. Yon gen rezon, govenman gen konpetans e kapab rezoud problem insekirite a. Gen moun ki di ke govenman se abitre ant jwet GNBistes e Lavalas.
li menm invite 2 group sa yo pou chita sou tab ansamb e rezoud problem insekirite a e kidnaping nan peyi a.
Se bel bagay nan je moun ke sansib e moun ki kouwe nan tonton noel. Pou moun pa we ke gouvenman Preval /Alexis a kom akte prensipal e enterese nan zafe insekirite e kidnaping nan, fok Preval/Alexis detache ko yo direk ou indirekteman de bandit yo.
Chita sou tab negosye ak bandit pa travay gouvenman.

Los Angeles Police pa nan pedi tan negosye avek the Crips or the Bloods.
Se travay sosyolojis e lide kominote kankou Jim Brown, or Al Sharptom.

Travay Leta se aplike la lwa.
Show them the punishment !!!
Guy ekri : [quote]Eske feblisman gouvènman ayisyen an (e "à la limite" sa menm vle di yon lòt rebelyon nan peyi a ankò pou gouvènman Preval/Alexis a bat dèyè li, sètadi yon lòt koudeta ankò) pral ede rezoud fleyo kinapping kap fèt an Ayiti?[/quote] Guy, sa se zafe conspiracy theory.
Se jwet devinet wap jwe.
Rebelion sa ke wap pale a pap fet konnyen la, paske Preval/Alexis gen 2 group sa yo(GNB/Lavalas) nan poch li.
Yon nan poch goch, e yon nan poch douwat li. Li kap rale toulede ansamb ou byen yon apre lot.
Guy ekri : [quote]M'ap mande tèt mwen si nou pa wè enstabilite tout enstitisyon pouvwa nan peyi a gen yon rapò dirèk ak dejenerasyon sosyal la. M'ap mande tèt mwen...[/quote] Dejenerasyon sosyal la se yon sosyolog ou byen yon lide kominote ki kap fe yon rale vini sou kestyon ke yon poze a. Nou pakab generalize dejenerasyon sosyal la, paske gen ti kote byen pezib nan peyi a kap byen minnin san bouyi, san kont.
Guy ekri: [quote]Bon, kite priyè pran kantik. Di mwen, Michel ak ekip Washington lan, si nou te prezidan/premye minis, kouman noumenm nou tap rezoud pwoblèm kidnapping lan? Jiskaprezan sèl bagay mwen wè nou pwopoze se "Show them the punishment!" Men èske gen plis nannan nan pwogram nou an. Paske "show them the punishment" se bagay m'ap tande depi mwen ti katkat. From word to action, there's got to be a plan! Just what is yours?[/quote]
Show them the punishment!!
Govenman Preval/Alexis a poko jiska presan fe sa!!
Si gouvenman kap pedi tan chita ak bandit, se ke yo konnin ki yes yo ye.
Gouvenman Amerikin pa chita negosye ak Al Capone, Bambino family, ni Gotty, ni Enron executif, ni Worldcom, ni ti kriminel, ni gwo kriminel.
Li le pou Preval/Alexis demake de bandit sa yo GNBistes/Lavalas e bay pep la jistis.
Jistis,Jistis,
Show them the punishment !
Jiska prezan, nou poko we sa!!

Michel

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Post by Michel Nau_ » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:38 pm

Ezili wrote: [quote]In terms of kidnapping, why do you coup d'etat folks ignore the role of the top Haitian police chief, Michael Lucius, in kidnappings since his illegal appointment in March of 2004. Weren't you folks in control then? How come most of these unconstitutional folks were about corruption and crimes, worst than anything under the Aristide/Neptune government they helped kill thousands of Haitian civilians and officials, to ouster?[/quote] Even tough we are aware of certain high ranking government officials' illegal activities; it's up to the actual government to act properly and to exercise their authority without fear. As you know, members of the Haitian judicial system are also afraid for their life. The Michael Liucius' case is a challenge for this government. They should take this opportunity to take a stand for justice?
Ezili wrote: [quote]What say you about kidnappings, Michelnau, as reported in these HLLN links on kidnappings below? How are these sole responsibilities of Preval/Alexis?[/quote] I wish I could answer these questions Ezili. The news out is that the Preval/Alexis government is negotiating with members of the criminal gangs as they are super power within a country. You know, We know and they know who these criminals are. They need just to capture a couple of them and make them talk.
We are just waiting to see if they are going to practice good governance.

Michel

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Post by admin » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:51 am

[quote]
Guy ekri: [quote]... ... kouman noumenm nou tap rezoud pwoblèm kidnapping lan? Jiskaprezan sèl bagay mwen wè nou pwopoze se "Show them the punishment!" Men èske gen plis nannan nan pwogram nou an. Paske "show them the punishment" se bagay m'ap tande depi mwen ti katkat. From word to action, there's got to be a plan! Just what is yours?[/quote]
Show them the punishment!!
[/quote]
Michel, let's be serious for a minute. I am all for "applying the punishment" (rather than "show" the punishment) to the guilty parties. It is more than obvious to me (and to everyone else I think) that the judicial system is broken in Haiti and that hardcore criminals are freely operating in Haiti, when they should have been put out of commission. There are people who are simply not fit to see the light of day. So, let's stop dancing around the issue that I raised. It's not a question of "show them the punishment" or not. I have not heard anyone argue in favor of the criminals who are absolutely destroying the fabric of Haitian society beyond recognition. In the Haiti that I knew, even under the dictatorship of the Duvaliers, the vast majority of people (outside of Tonton Macoutes and other parasitic elements) valued human lives and the protection of children above all else. As we lose that, we are losing Haiti, period - no matter who or what political party happens to be in power. Should people who are guilty of kidnapping small children and occasionally torturing and killing them (not discounting other victims) NOT BE PUNISHED??? Who the hell would argue that line?

But we have to move beyond slogans, no matter how righteous they make us feel. If you want to KILL some people (because it is VERY CLEAR, at least to me, that this is what you are promoting to discourage other people from committing the same crimes, does it not make sense to make sure ABOVE ALL that the Haitian Judicial Authority will be killing the right people? And when do we know for sure, and by what process, that we have indeed caught the real criminals? Certainly this CAN BE done. Haiti is a small country, and Port-au-Prince even much smaller. How many of the kidnappers have been caught to this day??? I think that it is an extremely small number. Why is that? How are they or how should they be POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED? What are the forensic obstacles? Certainly, the technology is available (bugging, hidden cameras, tracing the currency that is being used every time the kidnappers are given ransom, making use of invisible and/or indelible inks, auditing as many bank accounts as possible, monitoring travels in and out of all areas of Port-au-Prince [and not just the shantytowns, please... recognizing that often, our entrenched social prejudices against the poor are also the biggest part of our problem], and other techniques that are quite readily available everywhere else in the modern world). For goodness sake, how many crime investigators do we have? How does the system habilitate them to do their job properly? Let's concentrate on identifying the guilty parties and then you can "show them the punishment" all you want, as long as that is consistent with protecting or repairing our broken society.

When I hear people (all day long on Haitian radio and across the internet) say: "the solution is simple, just show them the punishment", I know all too well what they are appealing to: JUST PICK UP WHOMEVER YOU CAN FIND IN CITÉ SOLEIL OR BELAIR OR MARTISSANT OR ANY OTHER SHANTYTOWN IN PORT-AU-PRINCE AND BLOW THEIR BRAINS OUT, JUST TO TRACE AN EXAMPLE. I know that is not exactly what you said, Michel. But that is the undertone of any conversation where people just focus on the punishment and not on positively identifying the criminals. In the end, this populist appeal to street justice just makes the problem worse, because the level of violence goes up a notch while the criminals roam free.

That's why I called on you and others to refrain from the easy slogans, when no thought about the intermediate steps leading to punishing the truly guilty parties is debated anywhere.

Let's be serious, folks. Haiti is living a nightmare. The public execution of a few low-end criminals or even truly innocent poor folks, while others are regularly busting out of jails or dining in the finest metropolitan restaurants, is not going to magically solve anything. Let's do this right or it will get worse, much worse.

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Post by admin » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:14 pm

Extremely sad indeed, Dunord. Thank you for your note of caution, which is weighted by your experience and courageous resolve to make your return to Haiti possible, for a number of years anyway.

Be safe and do whatever is best for your family.

Guy

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:14 pm

Guy wrote: [quote]There are people who are simply not fit to see the light of day. It's not a question of "show them the punishment" or not. [/quote] Apparently guy, and base on your statement, you are more likely the one who want to kill them. You are even bigger than GOD to declare that men created at his image are not fit to see the light of day.
Sezon fet se vre, min mete yon ti dlo nan 4 kanpe w my friend. :wink:

When I say ‘Show them the punishment' means for the Haitian judicial system to prepare a menu a la carte that detail and match each crime with the proper punishment to fit the crime. The menu must be set, approved by law, and published for everyone to know.
They (kidnappers, criminals etc.) need to know what the punishment is all about.
Guy wrote: [quote]Let's concentrate on identifying the guilty parties and then you can "show them the punishment" all you want, as long as that is consistent with protecting or repairing our broken society. Certainly this CAN BE done. Haiti is a small country and Port-au-Prince even much smaller.[/quote]I agree with you guy!! :wink:
DuNord wrote: [quote]Unfortunately right now, kidnapping is becoming an accepted way to get money for the thug population. The kidnapping of innocent school children though is a new low and unheard of in my youth. Children are living in fear and robbed of their childhood. [/quote]
DuNord, you are right, and I concur with you that children should not be part of this game.
Drug, guns and kidnapping are Haiti's blood diamond. Sell drug, buy guns, make kidnapping to get more money to buy drug, buy more guns. This could be an endless versus cycle.
Marcien wrote: [quote]There are much more important reasons for which the death penalty must be reintroduced in our judicial system for the time being. We, the Haitian Reformist Party, we did recommend on our manifesto the amendment of the Constitution in order to reintroduce the death penalty.[/quote]
Bravo Marcien!! Govenman Haitian Reformist Party sa pa nan griyen dan ak kidnappers!
Govenman HRP an pa gen ase lajan pou sipote prizonye kidnapper pandan 15 a 20 tan prison, manje 3 fwa pa jou, gade TV e jwe soccer ak basketballl.
Si yon moun pa vle mouri, sispand komet kidnapping!!

Michel

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:39 pm

[quote]...The French diplomat told that Haiti was about to live a storm it had never seen. Why are we surprised today when we knew the Prophet's power?...[/quote]

Granmoun lontan di: "Bay kou bliye, pote mak sonje"</b>. Toutotan ayiti pa janm rive konpran ki kote maladi a soti, peyi a pap janm jwenn okenn bon remèd. Nap toujou mete pansman, se vre; men maladi a pap janm geri. KidonK, se toujou a rekòmanse, se lave men siye atè.

...eleksyon-ensekirite-koudeta-ensekirite-okipasyon-eleksyon-ensekirite...

gelin

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:49 pm

Bouli wrote: [quote]I just wish for the last 50 years Haiti had leaders like him.[/quote] Castro did the right thing for his country but under the wrong form of government which is purely dictatorial.
Is this what you wish for Haiti for the last 50 years?
Beware of what you wish for, you may get it.

Michel

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Post by admin » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:55 pm

[quote]Abse sou klou vinn mete, lè Prezidan Aristid te deklare l ap mete peyi Dayiti afe e asan si li pa reyeli.[/quote]
Could anyone else on this forum (and outside of it, for that matter) recall when and where Aristide made that statement????????????????????????

Assuming that:
1) Gifrants did not just make it up, to suit his purpose, and that
2) Aristide did not say it to Gifrants one-on-one or any other private setting,
then it had to be a public statement that others would clearly recall, due the grave nature of the threat.

I am not seeking any sort of Pavlovian response. This is a serious inquiry. I basically address this request to any other person who could corroborate Marcien Toussaint's statement "pour la vérité historique" (for the historical truth).

Thank you.

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:54 pm

Macien Toussaint ekri: [quote]Abse sou klou vinn mete, lè Prezidan Aristid te deklare l ap mete peyi Dayiti afe e asan si li pa reyeli.[/quote]
Guy wrote : [quote]Could anyone else on this forum (and outside of it, for that matter) recall when and where Aristide made that statement?[/quote]
Sije deba se zafe kidnapping kap fet gwo jounin nan peyi.
Kidnaping nan pa fet grenn pa grenn anko, se pa “truckload' ke lap fe kounyen la.
Se otobis chaje ak timoun lekol ke yap rale vinnin mete nan cite soley.

W chita ap mande Macien prev de ki kote ke li jwen deklarasyon sa.
Se posib ke se yon deklarasyon “off the record” ke li ye,
e li pa oblije di w souss deklarasyon sa.
Si w fe prop rechej w, se posib ke w jwen souss la tou.
E pi daye, sije deba se kidnaping boss papa.
Stick to the debate!!

Michel

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Post by admin » Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:43 pm

Gifrants, depi yo kenbe w nan manti, ou tonbe radote. Ofèt kounyè a, ou vin itilize menm taktik Michel Nau a. Fente, kabre, jimnastik, voye poud nan je moun pou yon rezon byen senp: Ou pa fouti di ki lè Aristide te fè deklarasyon ou di li fè a.

Tou manti pa fon...

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:15 pm

Guy!! Kite Macien trankil boss papa!!

Pou ki sa w cho nan zafe kile ke Aristide te fe deklarasyon sila.
Marcien byen di w ke se a parti de zak e aksyon e distribisyon zamm a dwat a goch ke Aristide te fe bay patizan li yo ki demontre klerman intensyon li a savwa ke si li pat pase nan eleksyon presidansyel 2000 la, te kap gen yon posibilite ke peyi a te kap an san e an fe.

Now you got the picture, and a picture is worth a thousand words.

Give Marcien a break please!!

Michel

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Post by admin » Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:18 am

Michel, nenpòt moun entelijan kab wè ke n'ap pale de 2 bagay diferan. Tout vle mwen pa vle wè Prezidan Bush, ou pa janm wè mwen di Prezidan Bush di yon bagay ke li pa te di. Oumenm an patikilye, ou toujou ap defòme sa moun di, ou toujou ap kole pyese pou fè moun di sa yo pa te di, ou toujou ajoute entèpretasyon pa w nan bagay la epi fè fo sitasyon alawonnbadè. E poutan ou pase nan gwo inivèsite tankou Georgetown ak George Washington U. Ou pa ka di m ke lè ou te gen pou w remèt pwofesè yo papye, ou te pèmèt ou foul yo ak fo sitasyon devan dèyè konsa. Li ta enposib pou remèt dezòd sa yo san pwofesè yo pa tire zòrèy ou. Men pou ki sa se sou Ann Pale ou santi ou alèz pou w remèt tenten sa yo?

Yon sèl bagay ki etone tout moun, se jan ou abitye fè sa anba je moun w'ap " site" yo, di yo di sa yo pa di, pandanstan menm sa moun lan te ekri a la toujou kote lank lan pa menm fin seche menm ("when the ink is not even dry yet" ). Kalite odas sa, mwen poko kab esplike li!!! (men erezman se ou sèl ki te konn fè bagay sa yo sou fowOm lan, kidonk lagè avèti pa tiye kokobe).

Men kounyè a, Marcien Toussaint vle rantre nan relijyon w lan, sètadi di entèl di sa li pa te janm di. Epi natirèlman, ki moun ki kouri prezante tèt li kòm avoka Marcien??? Se toutafè nòmal ! ! !

Mwen pa kè si n' ap pale sou Aristide, sou Bush, sou Saddam Hussein, sou Florvil Hyppolite, sou Jean Paul II, sou Hitler, sou Mother Theresa elatriye. Lesantyèl fòk nou sispann bay moun manti, paske "fo sitasyon" se manti yo ye tou. Kèlkeswa vye entèpretasyon politik ki vin dèyè li a, lò yon moun tchalenj manti nou bay yo.

Se pwen sa mwen t'ap fè, epi Michel mwen panse tout moun konprann, malgre tout jimnastik w'ap fè la yo. Foure tèt ou anba vant Gifrants pou ba li fòs ou pou chache fòs, se yon bagay ki danjere!!! Kontinye nan wout sa, w'a ban-m nouvèl pi devan!


[quote]Men bravou mwen te montre nou lè mwen te kanpe pinnalagannach kont Aristid e Lavalas la, se menm bravou sa mwen montre tou lè mwen te kanpe kont koudeta a.[/quote]
Ala kote moun brav, lò y'ap gade sinema!!

Cowboy ap tire, m'sye nan sal sinema a, li mete nan tèt li se Django li ye. A la fasil pou yon moun brav lò li kache nan dyaspora.

Si yon moun brav tout bon, tout moun kapab wè sa. Bravou pa sinonim ak vantadiz.

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Post by admin » Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:43 pm

Plis pawòl van.

Ezili Danto
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"The campaign against kidnappers...

Post by Ezili Danto » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:32 pm

Some AHP News - (English Translation in the form of extended headlines for December 20 - 15, 2006 - Unofficial). For complete articles in the official French version, please see www.ahphaiti.org. *
  • *Haitian police seized three people, including two police officers as they attempted to kidnap three people in Delmas. At least one of the officers is said to be a member of the BLTS (Office of anti-narcotics operations). The suspects had already had time to abduct three people, but a fourth, whom they were attempting to abduct not far from a police station, had time to call for help. The police immediately ran to the scene and overpowered the kidnappers who fired their weapons in an attempt to escape. They were taken to the police station along with their hostages. An enraged crowd arrived at the scene and demanded that the kidnappers be turned over to them.

    The police spokesperson refused to comment on the incident.

    There has been a dramatic increase in kidnappings over the past three weeks in the Haitian capital. Residents of populist districts are increasingly accused of being responsible for the abductions. However police sources insist that kidnappers as well as their victims come from all social strata.
    AHP December 20, 2006 12:35 PM

    *****************
    * Justice officials plan an important meeting for December 20 at the Justice Ministry to discuss the strike by judges triggered by accusations of corruption made by the director general of the police at the graduation ceremony for the 18th class of police cadets. Attendees expected at the meeting include the Justice Minister, the president of the Court of Cassation and many judges. The courts have been at a standstill since Monday in response to the allegations of corruption. Some judges have advocated mass resignations. They say they are upset because Mario Andresol has declined to provide evidence to back up his corruption allegations. Relations between judges and the police have worsened ever since a warrant was issued against former judicial police head Michael Licius, accused of involvement in kidnappings by Judge Napla Saintil, who is now off the case, while Licius has been dismissed from his position. Judge Napla said at the start of the week that he has thus far been unable to obtain any information about a group of individuals he ordered detained on allegations of kidnapping.

    AHP December 20, 2006 12:35 PM

    *****************

    AHP News - Extended headlines for December 19, 2006

    An AHP editorial discusses the wave of kidnappings and asks whether the motive may be to justify calls for a return of the abusive Haitian army. The level of kidnappings is not far from that under the Latortue regime, the editorial asserts.

    It is even said that the son of a kidnapper was kidnapped and assaulted for hours last week before his father arrived to obtain his release.

    The article urges that effective solutions be developed that look beyond the stereotypes to identify the true perpetrators, those behind them and their motives. Many now believe that the strategies for actions against the kidnappers have been unsuccessful because people behind the development of these strategies are deliberately leading people on a wild goose chase.

    This leads some to believe that the real objective is not to catch the kidnappers but rather to annihilate a certain category of individuals for very concrete reasons. Those who feel this way also see the campaign to reinstate the death penalty for kidnappings, in violation of the Haitian Constitution, as part of the same thinking, especially when those who call loudest for the death penalty say nothing in protest when the kidnapper turns out to be Mr. X, who is one of the untouchables. There is a lot of talk about kidnappings by ex-convicts, street gangs, and corrupt police officers, but the reality is that most of the bullets are fired toward the most deprived neighborhoods and the shantytowns of the capital. How many times has the UN been asked to pound these neighborhoods, no matter the cost in terms of "collateral damage", the editorial asks. These wretched people who are responsible for all our problems can simply be compensated or relocated, this reasoning goes. But by covering up the tracks, the situation grows worse; kidnapping is now a many-headed phenomenon whose perpetrators and their patrons are spread out wide and far. The campaign against kidnapping must be prepared to go wherever the kidnappers are, just as during any epidemic, the medicines must be administered everywhere there are documented cases of the disease...
    ------------------------------------

    AHP News Extended Headlinesfor December 18, 2006

    *Judges strike in Port-au-Prince to protest allegations of corruption made against them by police director general Andrésol. Close to 50 judges held a closed meeting that lasted four hours at the courthouse to discuss Andrésol's statements. Several judges said as they emerged from the meeting that the work stoppage would continue until further notice. Investigative Judge Durin said that measures will be taken that will be "proportionate to the gravity of the outrage" experienced by the judges.

    * Investigating Judge Napela Saintil has been asking APENA officials at the National Penitentiary to provide him with a list of the prisoners who have been incarcerated on kidnapping charges based upon his orders. The judge wishes to learn whether some of them may have escaped recently. There are reports that several of the prisoners who were involved in the case with which former judicial police director Michael Lucius was associated, which was being investigated by Judge Saintil, may have been among those who escaped from the prison. Judge Saintil deplored that he has received no response to his request made several days ago. He said it was incomprehensible that it was so easy for prisoners to escape from the country's largest prison facility. He also said he doubts the case against Lucius will go anywhere because the judge who has been assigned the case after he was pressured to step aside is close to Lucius.

    Several judges attending Monday's closed meeting to discuss their work stoppage said that it is strange that the sectors exerting pressure to beef up the campaign against kidnapping are doing nothing to call for the truth to be revealed in the case against Mr. Lucius.

    December 18, 2006 12:05 PM
    -------------------------------------

    AHP News Extended Headlines December 15, 2006

    AHP Editorial: What if the sole objective of the kidnappings is to bring about the departure of Prime Minister Alexis? For the past two weeks or so, kidnapping targets have been sensitive groups such as children, school children and schools themselves, causing great emotion and indignation. This is like a flashback to December 3, 2003, when a university rector was seen carried on a stretcher, his legs reportedly broken, under troubling and confused circumstances.

    A foreign diplomat confirmed Thursday, December 14 that several people are eyeing the position of Prime Minister Jacques Edouard Alexis, especially after he he repeated a statement by President Préval expressing a preference for holding talks with alleged bandits and people possessing illegal weapons from all sectors as a means to achieving peace. Heavy weapons and other illegal arms are not found solely in the hands of slum-dwellers. The practice of negotiating with leaders of armed groups, ex-convicts and other "freedom fighters" was common under the Latortue regime. Did Préval and Alexis make the mistake of imagining that they would be allowed to continue that practice?

    "Listen! These escaped prisoners and ex-convicts are a different sort of bandit. They are on our side", one can almost hear the critics of Alexis say, as they remain mute when their people are accused of violence and kidnapping.

    Violence and kidnapping must be fought in a comprehensive manner, otherwise, any discrimination in this effort will doom it to failure. Utilizing the "yoyo" of insecurity as a means of forcing the departure of a top government official in these dangerous times is a serious risk to take.

    And who would replace Alexis, and to what purpose?

    It would be simply out of a desire to open a new period of uncertainty in the country, as if there weren't enough worries already. It is often said that the lure of power drives people mad and that politicians and political types are often puppets dangling from the strings of those who manipulate them.

    Many say that these maneuvers aimed at upsetting the apple cart some six months after the constitutional government took office have intensified after rumors about a possible worsening of the illness of President Préval.

    Indeed, even though the president explained his state of health upon his return from Havana on Sunday where he underwent tests five years after he had a prostate operation, some people continue to wish at any cost that he be very sick.

    Haitian websites are full of articles speculating on who is going to replace President Préval. And of course a prime minister from a certain crowd is just the thing to pave the way when the time comes that the president becomes incapacitated, isn't it?

    However, it just might be a long wait, a very long wait, and above all, very tiring.
    ---------------------------

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Post by admin » Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:42 pm

[quote]Guy,

Mwen kwè li enpòtan pou w ale pran yon ti vakans.[/quote]
Mwen dakò avèk ou. M'ap tann tikè a. Achte'l nan Royal Caribbean oswa nan Carnival Cruise Lines.

[quote]Fowòm lan kòmanse sakaje w. Mwen pap janm di ke se wen ki fè sa.[/quote]
Ou kapab di sa si ou vle, ou kapab pa di l tou si ou pa vle... who cares?

[quote]Li ka bon w pran yon ti konje. Fè yon ti repoze w.[/quote]
Parole de l'Évangile.

[quote]Mwen pa di sa pou manke w dega non.[/quote]
Se ta pou la premyè-re fwa.

[quote]Si w pa vle fè sa, tou jis li sa mwen ekri pa reponn.[/quote]
Mwen pa ka pwomèt ou sa. What you write is funny beyond words. I can't help but react to it. You missed your second calling: it was not to be a politician.

[quote]Mwen pa kwè ke sa mwen ap poste yo fè w dibyen ditou.[/quote]
Ou pa fè yon lide jan sa ou di a jis. Mwen tèlman ri lò mwen wè sa ou ekri la, vant mwen fè m mal. Doktè, ki dite mwen ta pran souple?

[quote]Kenbe la.[/quote]
Kenbe fèm, oumenm tou Gifrants. Mwen pwomèt ou m'ap jwe CD w yo pandan mwen sou bato a.

Pa bliye non, fòk se Royal Caribbean oubyen Carnival Cruise Lines. Vin jwenn mwen tou. N'a prepare ansanm 2èm reyinyon anyèl kominote Ann Pale a. Papa Nau-ël pa ladan'l non. Bouli dekrete li òlalwa.

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Post by admin » Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:24 pm

Mèsi pou jès la, Marcien. Natirèlman, ou pap bezwen fè sakrifis sa... Sètase deja ke ou pwomèt ke w'ap la nan pwochen reyinyon Fowòm lan si dat la disponib pou ou. An prensip, konnen ke mwen pa te òganize dènye rankont lan. Tidodo te remèt nou sa fen tankou ze zwa. Mwen pa konnen si la vle fè sa ankò, osinon si yon lòt moun ta vle pran sa an chaj. Depi yon reyinyon Ann Pale pare, m'ap toujou fè jefò pou mwen la tou.

[quote]M ap tou pwofite swete w ak tout fanmi w yon Jwaye Nwèl e m ap swete tou ke ane sa pote bon bagay pou w ak tout fanmi w.[/quote]
Se pi bèl pawòl ou janm ekri sou fowòm lan depi lan 2000, kidonk mwen pa ka gade bèl pawòl sa pou mwen sèl, mwen voye li tankou yon benediksyon pou rejayi sou ou tou ansanm ak tout moun ou renmen.

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