The UN Fails Haiti, Again

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The UN Fails Haiti, Again

Post by admin » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:05 pm

The UN Fails Haiti, Again
Posted: 2006/11/25
From: Counterpunch


Two hundred and three years later, Haitians are again trying to drive out foreign occupation troops, today mostly drawn from an assortment of neo-colonies fighting under the United Nations' flag.

By Kim Ives

The Clashes in Cité Soleil

On Friday, November 18, 1803, the decisive battle of the Haitian revolution was fought at Vertières, just outside the northern city of Cap Français. There, General Jean-Jacques Dessalines led the revolutionary army of former slaves to rout Napoleon's crack French colonial legions.

Two hundred and three years later, Haitians are again trying to drive out foreign occupation troops, today mostly drawn from an assortment of neo-colonies fighting under the United Nations' flag.

On Friday, November 17, 2006, a major and symbolic confrontation of this struggle unfolded in the dusty, bullet-riddled slum of Cité Soleil, Port-au-Prince's largest.

A demonstration commemorating the Battle of Vertières was planned for 10 a.m. by Cité Soleil residents. But, beginning in the early morning hours, troops of the U.N. Mission to Stabilize Haiti or MINUSTAH surrounded the slum, peppering it with gunfire to intimidate the demonstrators.

"I arrived at the Cité Soleil market in a Haiti Progrès vehicle--clearly marked as press--with three colleagues at about 10 a.m.," explained Berthony Dupont who wrote a moving eye-witness account of the attack in this week's edition of the newspaper, Haiti Progrès. "Immediately, we heard bursts of automatic gunfire, and several U.N. armored vehicles pulled in front of our car, shooting wildly into houses and alleys of the slum. The residents responded with rocks and small-arms fire. The scene reminded me of the televised reports I have seen from the war in Iraq, or even more so, of Israeli attacks on the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank."

The U.N. tanks crashed through a marketplace, destroying small merchants' stalls, Dupont said. He saw a bleeding, wounded market woman whom a UN soldier had shot in the back. Residents told the journalists that the UN troops had shot and killed a child in the Bois-Neuf neighborhood several blocks away.

"I found tears of anger and shame streaming down my face as I impotently watched this scene unfold," Dupont said. "I understood then and there that the people of Cité Soleil are in a state of war with the MINUSTAH and cannot under any circumstances lay down their weapons as the government and UN are asking. That would be suicide."

Despite the machine-gunfire coming from the U.N. tanks, the journalists managed to weave their way into Cité Soleil and interview some of the residents. "I've already lost a sister and a brother to the MINUSTAH's bullets," a man in his twenties explained. "That's why I want the MINUSTAH to leave Haiti immediately."

Some 6,700 U.N. troops and 1,600 U.N. police are deployed throughout Haiti under a Security Council mandate that lasts until February 15, 2007. In June 2004, the MINUSTAH replaced the U.S., French and Canadian troops which invaded and occupied Haiti after U.S. Special Forces soldiers kidnaped President Jean-Bertrand Aristide from his home on February 29, 2004 and flew him into exile.

President René Préval's government has invited the MINUSTAH to stay in Haiti indefinitely, claiming the 5,300-member Haitian police force cannot maintain order in Haiti. The U.S. Embassy is also pushing for a long-term occupation, portraying Haiti as a state "at risk" of failure. But many Haitians, particularly those in Cité Soleil, respond that the MINUSTAH only creates instability and enforces injustice.

"We spent two years fighting against the de facto government of [Prime Minister Gérard] Latortue and [President Alexandre] Boniface," said a thin man in his thirties. "Now we have elected someone [Préval] to power, but we are ashamed of his conduct."

The MINUSTAH's base in Cité Soleil is a three-story cinder block building whose doors and windows are completely filled with sandbags. Soldiers dash from the hatches of UN tanks to the safety of the base as if they are under attack rather than attacking.

The base dominates Cité Soleil's principal market place, which has been cleared of all commerce. It was renovated only three years ago by President Aristide. One of the residents' principal demands is return of the marketplace to the small merchants, who are now forced to hawk amid the dust, garbage and exhaust fumes of the slum's roadsides.

By around noon, skirmishing had died down enough that word went out for the demonstration to start. Rara bands from three different neighborhoods began playing and marching simultaneously. One passed in front of the MINUSTAH base. Then all three converged with over 1000 demonstrators to march through the streets of the cordoned-off slum.

"Today, on the eve of the anniversary of Vertières, we remember the example of our ancestors who struggled for independence," said Jean-Paul (whose last name is withheld for security reasons), a young popular organization leader in Cité Soleil. "We want to demand our rights, express our discontent with how the foreigners are abusing us. They kill old people and children. They destroy homes, schools, hospitals and churches. They destroy everything. We are demanding that they return our territory to us."

During the interview, automatic weapon fire from the five U.N. tanks in the near-by intersection continued to crackle.

"We are ready to die," Jean-Paul continued. "We call on Jean-Jacques Dessalines to rise, Capois Lamort to rise, Toussaint Louverture to rise from wherever they are to return to Haiti and help us continue this fight so that Haiti can emerge from this situation. We are supposedly independent, but we are not free! We are not independent! Can we Haitians allow the foreigners to bury us? Never! Never!"

As demonstrators poured into the streets for the demonstration, they carried portraits of Aristide, still exiled in South Africa, and chanted slogans: "No matter what, MINUSTAH must leave!"

Other portraits seen on walls around Cité Soleil are of Emmanuel "Dred" Wilmer, a local popular leader killed along with dozens of other slum residents in a murderous MINUSTAH raid on July 6, 2005, and of Che Guevara.

Residents said that people from other rebellious shanty towns like Belair were now moving to Cité Soleil where they feel there is enough organization and will to fight the occupation. In this way, Cité Soleil has become liberated territory, the crucible for resistance in Haiti.

And the movement is spreading. On Saturday, November 18, a few hundred students marched in downtown Port-au-Prince, also calling for an end to the U.N. occupation. Many students, infiltrated and influenced by Haiti's bourgeoisie, remain hostile to Aristide and oblivious that their 2004 demonstrations provided a pretext for Haiti's most recent occupation. Nonetheless, as Haiti's latest occupation approaches the end of its third year, it is engendering frustration and humiliation even among pro-coup sectors.

"We should go find Dessalines' bones then grind them up and sprinkle them on us to give us strength to struggle against these scoundrels," Jean-Paul said. "We can't continue like this."


Kim Ives, until recently a writer and editor at Haiti Progrès, is now an independent investigative reporter and documentary filmmaker with a focus on Haiti.

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Solèy di: Minista ban m peyi m (French/Kreyol) Haiti Progres

Post by Ezili Danto » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:55 pm

Solèy di : Minista ban m peyi m by Berthony Dupont

Haiti Progres, Nov. 21, 2006


Vandredi 17 novanm lan, se pa t yon nouvèl mwen t ap tande, ni yon jounal mwen t ap li, mwen te anndan Site Solèy nonsèlman pou m te vizite katye popilè sa a men pou m te tou patisipe nan yon manifestasyon ki ta pral fèt nan jounen an.

Se lan yon machin jounal Ayiti Pwogrè ki make laprès nou te ye. Depi nou parèt, kèk eklerè te fè n konnen Minista ap tire depi m maten nan Site a. Nou kontinye antre, apèn nou rive bò mache a, efektivman nou tande yon rafal bal ki pati epi se konsa nou wè plizyè cha Minista k ap alevini epi k ap tire sou popilasyon an . Nou pa kontinye antre, nou fè machin lan fè bak, epi n al kanpe anfas mache a, yon fason pou n te kapab kontwole pi byen aksyon represif fòs okipasyon an t ap fè sou malere ak malerez yo nan Site a.

Manifestasyon an te sipoze kòmanse depi 10zè nan maten, li te onzè pase moun yo potko kapab rasanble tèlman Minista t ap tire pasipala sou yo. Yon fason pou anpeche yo sòti pou manifeste kòlè yo kont blan yo.

Imaj mwen te konstate nan moman sa a nan Site Solèy, se bagay yon moun konn abitye wè nan televizyon, lè y ap montre w lagè nan peyi Irak ak lè kolon Izrayelyen yo ap bonbade pèp Palestinyen yo, antre sou yo ak gwo cha, kraze kay yo.epi tire sou yo. Se menm imaj sa a mwen t ap viv nan Site Solèy. Gen yon momam menm, yon cha Minista vin kanpe devan machin Ayiti Pwogrè a, epi san krent y ap simaye bal tankou grenn lapli sou moun yo.

Lè sa a, dlo koule nan je m, se pa paske mwen fèb, men mwen te santi m lan yon sitiyasyon danjere epi mwen pat gen anyen lan men m, mwen pat kab fè anyen pou m defann tèt mwen epitou patisipe djanm nan rezistans lan ak popilasyon Site Solèy la. Represyon Minista ap fè nan Site a fè m konprann byen, si yon moun ap viv nan kondisyon sa a, nan lagè sa a, li oblije gen zam pou l defann tèt li, paske se yon veritab lagè Minista deklare kont popilasyon Site Solèy la.

Lan sans sa a, mwen vin konprann gouvènman Preval/Aleksi a tou pi byen, ki wòl y ap jwe osèvis peyi enperyalis yo tankou Etazini, Lafrans ak Kanada, lè y ap mande popilasyon Site Solèy la pou renmèt zam yo, depi ou vle dezame yon moun oubyen yon pèp se paske li se lènmi ou.

Men pawòl kèk militan nan Site a te pale ak nou: “ Nou te fè 2 lane ap goumen ak yon pouvwa defakto (Latortue ak Boniface), kounyea nou eli yon moun opouvwa, nou wont pou li, fòk Minista ale…”.

Yon lòt te fè nou konnen “gen jèn pami nou la ki pa kapab menm ale lekòl”li kontinye pale “mwen k ap pale ak ou, mwen se yon viktim Minista, mwen genyen sè m ak frè m ki mouri anba bal Minista, se pou sa m ap mande pou Minista ale, pou Minista bay pèp la mache piblik la pou pèp la kapab defann manje pitit li”…

Mache sa a, konpatriyòt la ap pale se yon bèl mache prezidan Aristid te konstwi nan Site a, enben se limenm Minista pran fè baz li, epi yo lage machann yo nan lari fatra a, e se youn nan revandikasyon pèp Site Solèy la se pou Minista bay machann yo mache a, men deklarasyon yon lòt konbatan nan Site a: jodi a pou mwenmenm se 17 novanm se yon jou ki tèlman enpòtan pou mwenmenm patikilyèman ak pou tout ayisyen san distenksyon, lè w ap pran egzanp jan zansèt nou yo te goumen pou n te rive endepandan, se pa kounyea jodi 17 novanm lan lavèy batay Vètyè, pou nou anvi fè yon manifestasyon pou n revandike dwa nou, pou nou rele pou mekontantman nou, pou jan nou wè blan yo ap maspinen nou. Yo touye, yo kraze, yo touye granmoun, yo touye timoun, yo kraze lekòl, yo kraze lopital, yo kraze legliz…Y ap krazebrize tout bagay …! Nou vin la pou n di moun sa yo ba nou teritwa nou, men yo kanpe nan chak kafou nan Site Solèy ou jwenn 4 ou 5 chadegè y ap tire pou yo fè jenosid sou nou.

Nou menm nou prè oubyen yo elimine nou nètalkole oubyen Janjak Desalin leve anpenpan, Kapwalamò leve, Tousen Louvèti leve, lespri l sòti nan Fòdejou kote l ye a pou l retounen an Ayiyi vin ede nou kontinye lit la afenke Peyi Dayiti soti nan sitiyasyon sa a…Noumenm Ayisyen nou pa kapab ankò, swadizan y ap di nou genyen desanzan endepandan, men nou pa lib ! nou pa endepandan! Eske noumenm Ayisyen n ap kite blan yo antere nou?

Jamè! Jamè! Nou pap kapab kontinye konsa. Nou ta pito ale sou fòs Janjak Desalin nou leve zonbi an, pran zo Desalin yo graje yo mete sou nou kòm parabal pou nou goumen ak mechan sa yo, paske nou pap kapab kontinye konsa ankò…

Tout pandan kanmarad sa a t ap pale li te oblije rete tanzantan akòz ba l Minista t ap tire bò kote nou te ye a. Gen yon malerez, yon machann mabi ki te pran yon bal lan do l epi cha Minista a te pase kraze ti komès li t ap fè nan mache. Selon say o te rapòte nou tou genyen yon timoun lan Bwanèf ki te mouri jou vandredi maten an anba bal Minista.

Li te vè midi konsa, lè manifestasyon an te finalman pran lari, nan Solèy 17, moun yo te gen anpil pankat ak yon latriye bèl foto prezidan Aristid. Yo te di grenadye alaso, yo monte pase devan baz Minista a nan mache a, kote yo chante epi voye eslogan ak pawòl pimanbouk kont Minista. Youn nan chante yo se: Vle pa vle fòk y ale! Vle pa vle fòk Minista ale…! Pawòl sa a montre klè detèminasyon popilasyon Site Solèy la pou yo dechouke Minista nan peyi a. Yo pa mande pou Minista ale paske, li pa fè anyen tankou anpil lòt moun ap fè konprann, men rezon pa yo prezans Minista se kontinyasyon koudeta 2004 la, prezans Minista se sasinen Desalin yon lòt fwa ankò, plis represyon Minista ap fè sou yo.

Si nan peyi a gen lòt gwoup nou kapab site etidyan yo konsa, k t ap mande Minista rache manyòk li, bay Ayiti blanch nan yon manifestasyon yo te fè jou samdi 18 novanm lan; fòk nou siyale, yo pa sou menm pozisyon ak konbatan Site Solèy yo. Etidyan yo, se yon fo nasyonalis ki monte yo, nan yon entèvyou yo t ap bay radyo Melodi FM, lendi maten 20 novanm lan; yo te tou pwofite ap choute sou Aristid, komkwa Aristid t ap fè represyon sou etidyan ak sou gwoup 184, Aristid t ap monte yon lame bandi.

Alòske pou moun Site Solèy yo aprè kesyon okipasyon an, lòt revandikasyon ki enpòtan pou yo se retou prezidan Aristid, revandikasyon sa a, yo pap negosye l ak kikeseswa, e ki korèk tou, paske si Aristid pa tounen lan peyi a komsadwa se koudeta 2004 la k ap kontinye. E si yo pa lage tout lòt prizonye politik yo se ankò politik koudeta 2004 la k ap kontinye.

Pou moun Site Solèy yo, kesyon retou Aristid la se yon kesyon ki chita nan kad pou respekte yon prensip men tou anndan Site a, Aristid te kòmanse ap kreye yon bann bagay esansyèl pou aleje soufrans mas defavorize sa yo. Li te gentan bati kèk kay, li bati mache a ak yon plas pou moun yo te pran ti detant yo, sitèn pou moun yo te jwenn dlo elatriye. Se pa san rezon, malgre pwopagann boujwazi a kont Aristid li toujou rete popilè lan mitan mas yo sitou moun Site Solèy yo

Pou n fini n ap di sitiyasyon moun site Solèy yo mande pou tout patriyòt konsekan reflechi sou li, gen anpil moun kit deyò ak anndan peyi a ki ta renmen wè yon chanjman an Ayiti. Batay pou chanjman sa a, li kòmanse nan Site a. Se kondisyon sosyal moun yo, ki lakòz se yo ki premye viktim fòs okipasyon an. Se yo boujwazi malpouwont lan bezwen detwi, se sa k fè moun sa yo, yo pa gen anyen pou yo pèdi si y ap goumen pou peyi yo, okontrè y ap gen plis nan batay sa a, y ap mennen menmjan ansyen esklav yo ki nan tan pa yo pat gen anyen tou pou pèdi, sèl chans yo se te goumen pou yo sòti nan lesklavaj. E se sa yo te fè kont lame dokipasyon fransè a, ki te vin ba nou libète ki fè jodi a, nou kapab fyè rele tèt nou Ayisyen.

Berthony Dupont


**********************************************
Commémoration de Vertières :

Cité Soleil dit à bas l'occupation



Le vendredi 17 novembre, j'étais présent à Cité Soleil non seulement pour visiter la commune mais aussi pour participer à une manifestation anti-occupation. Nous étions venus sur place à bord d'un véhicule de Haiti-Progrès identifiée en tant que presse. Et dès notre arrivée nous fûmes informé que depuis très tôt le matin, ce quartier populaire était la proie de tirs de la part de la Minustah.

Malgré ces avertissements, nous nous rendîmes du côté du marché et là, après avoir été accueilli par une rafale d'arme automatique, nous assistâmes à un défilé de chars de la Minustah qui tiraient à bout portant. Nous fîmes marche arrière et nous nous mettâmes afin de mieux contrôler la situation. C'est ainsi que j'ai pu voir en direct l'action répressive de cette force d'occupation sur les malheureux de la Cité Soleil.

La manifestation était prévue pour 10 heures du matin, et il était déjà onze heures et aucun rassemblement n'était possible suite à l'action de la Minustah.

Je ne peux m'empêcher de comparer cette situation que j'ai vécu aux images télévisées des scènes de guerre en Irak ou mieux encore les images d'agressions des colons Israéliens sur le peuple Palestinien. A un moment de la durée l'un des chars vint se placer directement devant le véhicule de Haiti-Progrès et arrosa d'une pluie de balles tout ce qui bougeait.

Je fus révolté, et des larmes ont coulé sur mes joues en constatant mon impuissance face à ces abus révoltant et ceci m'aida enfin

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:04 pm

Another nonsense headline again...

Somebody forgot to tell this reporter that Cite Soleil is not Haiti. His article focuses strictly on Cite Soleil which is not different from downtown San Paulo in Brazil, or downtown Kingston, Jamaica, or Old San Juan, Puerto Rico. Each country has its own Cite Soleil.

The MINUSTAH didn't fail Port de Paix, Cap Haitien, Labadie, L'Ile a Vache, Les Cayes, Jacmel and other beautiful and peaceful areas in Haiti.

He reported:[quote] "We are ready to die," Jean-Paul continued. "We call on Jean-Jacques Dessalines to rise, Capois Lamort to rise, Toussaint Louverture to rise from wherever they are to return to Haiti and help us continue this fight so that Haiti can emerge from this situation.

"We should go find Dessalines' bones then grind them up and sprinkle them on us to give us strength to struggle against these scoundrels," Jean-Paul said. "We can't continue like this."[/quote]
Please stop insulting the Haitian people!!

Manzel Ezili bel fam gwo jupon!! stop those theatrical dreams of yours. We are not a bunch of savages putting ridiculous and imaginary words in poor Haitian black man mouth.

Cite Soleil is real. Don't mix theatrical scenes with reality.

No wonder why the upper class is using Lavalas fanatics own stupid statement like this to accuse their leader of black magic.

Human bones grinding is counterproductive!!!! Come on!!

Try something else!

[quote]Kim Ives, until recently a writer and editor at Haiti Progrès, is now an independent investigative reporter and documentary filmmaker with a focus on Haiti.[/quote]
What an easy way to make a quick buck, left and right selling poor people misery to the world.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

When there is something new, wake me up.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Michel

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Post by admin » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:00 am

[quote]Manzel Ezili bel fam gwo jupon!![/quote]
Warning (everyone): YOU MUST REFRAIN FROM THIS TYPE OF PERSONAL CHARACTERIZATIONS. THEY ARE INSULTING.

Michel, please make your points without demeaning others. You are a long time member of this forum. You know that there are better ways of presenting a counter-argument.

As to the reference to human bone grinding:
[quote]"Nou ta pito ale sou fòs Janjak Desalin nou leve zonbi an, pran zo Desalin yo graje yo mete sou nou kòm parabal pou nou goumen ak mechan sa yo, paske nou pap kapab kontinye konsa ankò…"[/quote]
I thought this was rhetorical. I think you took it literally, which brings you to say: "Human bones grinding is counterproductive!!!! Come on!!" Michel, would you really expect the person who uttered that sentence to believe that he could get Dessalines's bones, grind them and sprinkle them on revolutionary fighters in order to make them impervious to MINUSTHA's bullets? I think that is a rather interesting figure of speech, but nothing more amazing than that. Am I wrong?

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:10 am

Guy wrote: [quote]Warning (everyone): YOU MUST REFRAIN FROM THIS TYPE OF PERSONAL CHARACTERIZATIONS. THEY ARE INSULTING. Michel, please make your points without demeaning others. You are a long time member of this forum. You know that there are better ways of presenting a counter-argument.[/quote] Guy if you think that calling a woman Bel fam, gwo jupon is insulting, I don't know what definition that you are using, and this is your prerogative. If Ezuli thinks that this is insulting, then my apology goes to her.

This is not an insult like you want it to be.
Wap fe ti jwet chofe dife anko.
This term is addressed to women with charisma, and dedication to issues that they believe in. Golda Meir 4th prime minister of Israel, Margaret Thatcher, Michael Jean, Ertha Trouillot, these are women with gwo jupon who are not afraid to steer amongst men, and pick a fight for issues, and causes that they believe in.
Sispan chofe dife!! Let's stick to the subject, Cite Soleil is not Haiti.

Guy wrote: [quote]I thought this was rhetorical. I think you took it literally, which brings you to say: "Human bones grinding is counterproductive!!!! Come on!!" Michel, would you really expect the person who uttered that sentence to believe that he could get Dessalines's bones, grind them and sprinkle them on revolutionary fighters in order to make them impervious to MINUSTHA's bullets? I think that is a rather interesting figure of speech, but nothing more amazing than that. Am I wrong?[/quote] Yes you are right, it was rhetorical and symbolist indeed to me to you, Ezuli and a lot of us.
But for a statement like this quoting from a poor black man from the street of Cite Soleil is more damaging than view as a quote to rally the troops.
The general public knows that Haiti has a bad reputation about voodoo, black magic, kidnapping, murders etc. We all have seen how the media and members of the upper class are accusing Aristide of black magic of grounding a baby's body for political power. This kind of statement should be avoided, because they use it literally.

We don't need to call our ancestors to motivate the troops. We just need to address issues that are real and important to the people of Cite Soleil, water, electricity, security, healthcare, social justice etc..
Bouli wrote: [quote]Which one put you to sleep the story or the headline? I know you don't like the headline.[/quote] Bouli, this is the same old stuff over and over again. They still continue to put together, Aristide, MINUSTAH, cite Soleil, and make a story. These stupid stories don't make too much impact in our life anymore.
Bouli wrote: [quote]Our countrymen from Cite Soleil had proven many times how much they value our history and always take upon their shoulders the responsibility to defend our territory by all mean. Cite Soleil won't wait for proud French speaking political leaders to give them lectures on Vertières for they knew that battle did silence Napoleon's Army on our land. Of course Cite Soleil is calling for Dessalines, Capois, Christophe…Our countrymen are picky in choosing their models. In spites of bullets noise, they did come out to face the enemy, chant their slogans and demonstrate they power. One need to learn to dream opened eyes on ways to provide to these brave souls the right tools to face the enemy.[/quote] This is so romantic Bouli!!. W siman chita devan kompute w, café o le devan w, wap imajime kijan moun cite soleil value our history.. take upon their shoulders the responsibility to defend… Bouli please wake up!! Cite Soleil is real, stop dreaming. Sispand voye malare al mouri avek bel romantic epope, epik rev ke intelektyel yo ap fe. An nou desand Cite Soleil pou nou al fe travay kominote, e sispand di moun yo pran zam.
Bouli wrote: [quote]One need to learn to dream opened eyes on ways to provide to these brave souls the right tools to face the enemy.[/quote]
If you think that teaching to these poor people of dreaming of Dessalines, Petion, Capois are the right ammunition and the right tools to fight poverty, Bouli, please stop dreaming and be real.
We have a new democratic government that is call for the MINUSTAH to stay for another 10 years. If we don't agree with the decision of the actual government, we don't need to push the poor people of Cite Soleil to fight a war for us. We have a functioning Parliament that is mandated to go over the issue, and call for the withdrawn of MINUSTAH if they reach this decision.
Leave ours heroes alone!!
They did their job.
Let's do ours!!
Haiti is not Cite Soleil, we have beautiful and peaceful places too.

An nou sispand itilizè mizè malarè pou fè politik!!

Michel

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Post by admin » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:09 am

Michel, I have yet to get to the essence of the original post or your reaction to it. I may or may not, as I have to choose which posts to spend any time on. But this was truly for me a simple matter of moderation. You may accuse me of "chofe dife" ALL YOU WANT, but in my view I was doing just the opposite. Though to be honest with you, I do not expect you to understand that point.

[quote]Wap fe ti jwet chofe dife anko. [/quote]
This is simply not worth my time. Inciting a quarrel between you and anybody else on the forum does not serve the least of my interests. However, I must warn once again to stay away from personal characterizations. The one you made was quite improper, in my view, regardless of how others may interpret it, including the party in question.

By now, you should know that I simply state my opinions and I do not need anyone's help or support in doing so. The "chofe dife" is characteristic of the weak-minded and I do not count myself among them.

Please refrain from personal characterizations, including backhanded compliments! Kaka je pa linèt.

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:42 am

Kaka je pa linèt. Sa se vre!! W pa fouti di ke w pa we sa!!

Menm vye atik Aristide, MINUSTAH, Cite Soleil sa poste an plizye lang: Angle, Kreyol e Franse!! Se sa yo rele propagan pou kraze yon peyi kap fonksyone avek yon govenman ki eli demokratikman.
Gwo sezon fet Noel sa ki yon sezon inpotan pou ekonomi peyi a e sezon kote ke fre nou yo e zanmi etranje yo ki nan fredi la nej ta remin vinn pran ti vakans yo avek vye fanmi yo,
Se pa le moman pou nou lese vye blan activists an konivans avek ti neg fre intelektyel nou yo kap kontinye reve je kale.
Si nou vle mete kostim inifom Dessalines ak Capois la Mort, Charles Oscar sou nou pou al batay avek MINUSTAH, kite sezon fet la pase byen silvous plait, SVP. Sezon madigra pral rive sou nou la tale, nou gen kont tan poufe pyes teat nou yo.
Pa vinn rele Ayiti cheri nou an site soley.
Se malonet sa!!!
Se sisuide tout yon peyi pou propagand politik e anpil nan nou responsab pou kite dife sa rechofe anko sou forum nan gwo sezon fet sa. Si nou vle MINUSTAH ale e pou Aristide retounin, se pa moun site soley ki pou vinn pedi lavi yo anko. Nou konnin tre byen ke genyen protokol e filye pousa fet.
Nou pa bezwen voye malere al mouri gwo sezon Noel sa.
An nou gade kijan ke nou kap voye yon ti kichoy bay ti malere cite soley yo.
Si nou interese nan ede fre ak se nou yo, map kap ba nou non e adress 2 e 3 oganizasyon charite kap fe bel bagay nan peyi d'Ayiti.

Michel

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:30 pm

Did the UN really fail? Adye wi dan!

gelin

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Post by admin » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:53 pm

I had almost forgotten about the parabolic Gelin, but not quite... I just no longer have any notion about when he will show up, even when the matter concerns religion or faith. (That used to be automatic.)

Gelin, thank you for inciting us to think, but remember that we are still trying to understand some of the first century's paraboles. And we do not have another 20 centuries...

As to Michel... let me state this: All of AYITI is not Site Soley. That is true. But all of Site Soley IS Ayiti, whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not, whether anyone on this forum or outside of it likes it or not.

Site Soley is Haiti, and its residents are Haitians, just like you and me. And we should be damned to deny it. I would try to understand if you tell me that this is all lies, that the MINUSTAH soldiers are not really shooting indiscriminately at the people of Site Soley, that this is pure fabricated propaganda aimed at the return of Jean-Bertrand Aristide to power (truly a pipe dream). I could try to understand and ask you for your evidence that the "eye witnesses" are lying. But please do not tell us that if those accusations are true we shouldn't care, because of some goddamn Christmas celebrations.

Michel, when I first posted the Kim Ives article, I did it for two reasons:

1) because I wanted to ascertain the truth of the situation as described, by way of replies to the article. Just this morning, I got some other terrible news about some impending massacre of Haitians in the Dominican Republic and I am just as concerned. Those massacres have happened before, both in Site Soley (and other poor neighborhoods of Haiti) and in the Dominican Republic. If all of Haiti is not Site Soley and if all Haitians are not braceros toiling in the Dominican Republic, does this mean that we should totally ignore their fate until a convenient time, such as after the holidays.

2) Haiti is indeed occupied and there is not much that any one of us can do about it from one day to the next. But this article raises an issue, an important one that we should all think about: Why is it that our governments seem to always beg for the continuation of the foreign occupation, automatically asking for its renewal at the end of each "mandate"? [Of course, I know the answer: it's the fear that all hell will break loose if the foreigners are not present, pretty much the same argument that is used to justify the continued occupation of Iraq by American and British forces. In other words, they create the mess and supposedly they are the only people who can help clean it up.] But how aggressively have our various governments pursued the transfer of authority and responsibility that will get them to the point where they can say: "You have cleaned up long enough... It's time for us to deal with the mess ourselves, because we cannot afford to rely on you to do the job for us. Your self-interest resides in maintaining our dependence and victimization. Our self-interest resides in becoming autonomous once more and assuming responsibility for our nation's development." How closer are we to this point, from one month to the next? Is that objective getting closer or further?

Those were the two considerations that came to mind when I read the Counterpunch article. I have always stated that I was against the coup d'etat but you have not seen me once advocate for the return of Aristide to power since the second coup d'etat. Not because I believe that the coup should have happened, but because I knew instinctively that in the real world, while it's possible to win the lottery twice, if an assassin shoots a bullet in your head once (and you miraculously survive while the assassin gets away with it), you cannot possibly live again if the assassin returns and acts on the opportunity of shooting you in the head once again.

I do not believe in fairy tales. This is not about the return of Jean-Bertrand Aristide. This is about HAITIANS GETTING KILLED INDISCRIMINATELY and whether we can celebrate "baby Jesus" (he is born again!) while this is happening.

If Jesus should strike me dead for saying so, then so be it. But I think that it is absurd to refuse to entertain questions of human rights, because Christmas is around the corner.

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:03 pm

Guy wrote: [quote]As to Michel... let me state this: All of AYITI is not Site Soley. That is true. But all of Site Soley IS Ayiti, whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not, whether anyone on this forum or outside of it likes it or not.[/quote]
Bravo Guy!! Cite Soleil is indeed part of us, but we do have areas in Haiti where Haitians are very happy with there daily life. Just like in a large family of 10 children, one may have a PhD. And another one may be a convicted felon.
That doesn't mean that society should fail the entire family because of one child.
This is not fair! And this is exactly what this article is doing, putting the entire country down.
These reporters have a clear agenda to show that the MINUSTAH is not doing a good job, the people of Cite Soleil are still dying, and the return of Aristide is definitely the solution. And this is exactly what this article is trying to demonstrate, and like a damn energizer rabbit, they keep doing it over and over, and over again. We are sick of it.

And you know it! Members and visitors are contempt to participate in these kinds of junk debates.

If we want to talk about corruption, fine let's talk about corruption.
Why are we afraid about talk real issues such as corruption?
If we want to talk about insecurity, kidnapping and murderer of innocent citizens, fine let's talk about real issues that affect the every day life of Haitian people.
Let's talk about rural education, rural healthcare system planning, testing, and implementing.
Let's talk about low cost lodging, water and electricity distribution, and social justice.
Enough of this cite soleil cliché of Haiti.

Guy wrote: [quote]But please do not tell us that if those accusations are true we shouldn't care, because of some goddamn Christmas celebrations. If Jesus should strike me dead for saying so, then so be it.[/quote]Guy, Jesus pap jamb fe sa, paske li renmin W anpil.

I just love Christmas!! I love Christmas!
Mwen remin Tonton Noel,
Mwen remin plidetwal kap file nan syel san rete e vinn tombe ate fe anpil limye intinsel.
Mwen remin jwe avek revolve dlo anba soley midi.
Mwen renmin pran sant klorat kap pete nan revolve kapsil
Mwen remin toupi kap vire ron avek bel mizik e bel koule.
Mwen remin ti machin ak motociklet polis kap fe siren e vire ron jiskaske pil yo fini.
Mwen remin diri ak djondjon, griot, banann peze ak patat fritay.
Mwen remin al sou chandemas al gade moun kap monte masouyife, manje binyen, marinad, acra lanmori, bwe fresco 2 koule, manje pistach griye tou kale, bwe like ak kresmas e manje pinpatat nan vwazinaj.

Just like baby Jesus is born again, I am a kid again during Christmas time e peson pakap retire bel moman sa yo nan vi'm.

Guy, mwen renmmmmmmin fete Tonton Noel.

Michel

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:18 pm

Guy wrote: [quote]Why is it that our governments seem to always beg for the continuation of the foreign occupation, automatically asking for its renewal at the end of each "mandate"? [Of course, I know the answer: it's the fear that all hell will break loose if the foreigners are not present…..But how aggressively have our various governments pursued the transfer of authority and responsibility that will get them to the point where they can say: "You have cleaned up long enough... It's time for us to deal with the mess ourselves, because we cannot afford to rely on you to do the job for us.[/quote] Guy, I agree with you on this one.
Just like when you trained your son to ride a bicycle, after holding him a few times, you realize that at one point you have to set him free even tough you know that he may fall, but you did it anyway.

After a few falls, he will realize that you are no longer behind him, he will get up on his own and try again until he gets it right, and you will keep screaming:
That's my boy!! That's my boy! Son you did it!!
Well sooner than later, the MINUSTAH has to set Haiti free.
Guy wrote: [quote]This is about HAITIANS GETTING KILLED INDISCRIMINATELY[/quote] Arbitrarily, aimlessly, at random. Guy, jan w di sa, se kankou ke solda MINISTAH yo se la chass e plon gaye je femin sak tombe tombe ke yap fe nan deye Ayisyen!! It's open season!!
You know that it's not the way they operate.
Every single, occurrence, shooting and killing deliberate or unintentional by any soldier to any victim by law should be documented. A detailed report showing, location, time, victim, eyewitness etc should be documented.
Get your facts straight brother!!
Jaf wrote: [quote]I appreciate the points made above by Guy. Especially this sentence that he hopes Haitian offcials would finally harness the courage to tell the foreign pimps currently posing as Santa Clauss in Haiti: " Your self-interest resides in maintaining our dependence and victimization. Our self-interest resides in becoming autonomous once more and assuming responsibility for our nation's development."[/quote]
Base on the analogy above, Guy's son was more than happy to know that his dad is behind him to hold him. The decision will come from the MINUSTAH, and let's hope that Haiti will be ready when that happens.
Jaf wrote: [quote]How in hell can one explain the fact that the MINUSTAH has such military power, such political power in an island nation that it occupies in every way, including financially (because we know the MINUSTAH is only a tool at the hands of its Washington masters).[/quote]
They are mandate as honorary guests of the Haitian government. They came to camp as long as the government wants them to, except if the Haitian people want to evict them out. This could be another story.....
Jaf wrote: [quote]The bloodshed must stop. The racism must stop. For it to stop, the humanity of the people of Cité Soleil MUST BE RECOGNIZED and Protected just as that of the people of Morne Calvaire MUST BE recognized and protected. [/quote]

Sa se bel pawol mon fre!

Michel

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Post by admin » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:25 pm

[quote]Every single, occurrence, shooting and killing deliberate or unintentional by any soldier to any victim by law should be documented. A detailed report showing, location, time, victim, eyewitness etc should be documented.
Get your facts straight brother!![/quote]
Michel, you are an amazing man...

[quote]Base on the analogy above, Guy's son was more than happy to know that his dad is behind him to hold him.[/quote]
No, "amazing" does not do you justice. As far as logic goes, you are simply INCREDIBLE.

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:57 am

Guy S. Antoine wrote: [quote]I have always stated that I was against the coup d'etat but you have not seen me once advocate for the return of Aristide to power since the second coup d'etat….. This is not about the return of Jean-Bertrand Aristide…. I do not believe in fairy tales.[/quote]
So do I, Guy! I don't believe that his return will make a difference in Haitians daily life.
I was again the way Aristide was removed from power. Nevertheless, there are enough mistakes and blames to pass around including to the international community, the OPs, and Aristide and his entourage.
You are not advocating for Aristide's return, so are a lot of people just like you who don't believe in fairy tales.
Nou tout konnin ke le ze a soti nan deyè poul la, li preskè impossible pou pousè li antrè anko.
With an enthusiasm beyond belief, Ezili and Jaf are keeping hope alive by any mean necessary.
This is their prerogative!

Min sepandan, ba nou yon « break » pou fet Noel la souplè.
Pep Ayisyen poko parè pou zetrem'm sa.!!

Michel

Leonel JB

We failed, not the UN!

Post by Leonel JB » Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:06 am

Michel, you started a little better at the beginning. Then, the other Michel took over with some weird analogies!!!!

Anyway, Guys, we can not blame the US, UN, France, UK etc etc. The real problem started with Haitians themselves.-

We need to stop this state of Denial. I remember coming with this letter of Rosalvo Bobo who wrote about a Century ago about Our problems. It seems that some People are using the same denial of CIA putting Drugs in the Ghettoes.

Please, give me a break!

We have a problem. Therefore, we have to deal with it. We need to stop blaming X,Y and Z for it. This is playing with our intelligence.

We all know about the UN which is controlled by US and Israel. There is nothing new. But, our problem is that we rely on other People to fix Haitian's Problems.

How long will it last? can we still live with that attitude of Them against Us?

We have a Country which can not sustain itself with Agriculture or any other Natural resources. But yet, kidnapping is the only way beside Drugs to make money. We have multiple gangs in Cite Soleil and elsewhere. How are we going to deal with this Fleau.

We can not point fingers at tne UN while we have three fingers at us. I understand that we are in a state of denial. We refuse to accept the fact that Haitians are responsible for Haiti's Misery. I wonder how Fidel Castro would do if he was waiting for UN or US to help Cuba. Yet, these two did more to Cuba than Haiti.

If your Son/Daughter is using drugs, you need to deal with His/Her addiction, instead of putting the blame on the Neighbors'kids. (a little Michel's style)

Anyway, I am sick and tired of People thinking that others triggered their unhappiness. I have seen it everyday in the US. Some Americans are blaming Foreigners for taking their Jobs. While, they wouldn't accept to work in the same conditions the Foreigners are doing.

Please, accept the blame ourselves. Haiti needs us to get together and face Reality. We can not spend our lifetime blaming others.

Pran konsyans, respekte frE'w ak SE'w. Renmen Peyi'w, met men'n ansanm pou nou lave salte ki genyen nan peyi nou.

I am overweight. I can not blame Mc Donalds for my uncontrolling love for food...

THE UN FAILS HAITI AGAIN! What is next? We will spend the rest of our life saying the same thing over and over.

What about Us?

L'Union fait la Force,

Leonel

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