Drug probe targets Aristide

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Gelin_

Re: Drug probe targets Aristide

Post by Gelin_ » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:18 am

According to the Haitian Constitution,
[quote]Article 41.1: Aucun haitien n'a besoin de visa pour laisser le pays ou pour y revenir</b>.[/quote]
But
[quote]...If Aristide comes under a U.S. indictment, the threat of extradition to the United States might keep him from pushing to return to Haiti</b>, according to legal observers...[/quote]

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:40 am

With regards to the Haitian Constitution, MD is right ONLY when it comes to the FADH question - eventhough some may argue that the army had already destroyed itself with the many inside coups they organized at will. That institution was no longer viable in the eyes of many, so its 'funeral' came as no surprise to the nation.

Nevertheless, I believe that only a deep respect for the Haitian Constitution will prepare the nation for peace and prosperity. Aristide is not Haiti's problem - never was never will be. For the doubters, the last couple of years should be enough to prove this point.

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:08 am

[quote]...Haiti's political culture from almost every side has written a history where one side triumphs, the other side weeps and suffers and all the rest is commentary...[/quote]
Almost is the key word here and I would agree with your statement. That's why Haiti's problem cannot be centered around the name of one man (loved by many and feared by some).

[quote]...As to the constitution, Gelin, the articles in Haiti's 1987 constitution cited above read exactly as stated, and the Aristide government violated every single one of them. I can email Gelin a copy of the document in French and/or English if one is needed...[/quote]
Don't bother. I have seen the list before, and it was compiled by some who for their part have very little regard for the constitution. Your approach reminds me of what I have seen/heard back in 2002-03 when the GNB/G184 message was to get rid of one man so the country could be saved in 48 hours. Two years later, everyone can see that respect for law and order was the least of these 'technocrats' concerns.

For a good start, Préval should finish his 5-year term, as required by the Haitian Constitution, and be replaced by an elected president. What's so hard to understand?

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:16 pm

[quote]Well, Gelin, then I can only assume that you admit to the fact that this (far from complete) list of serious violations of the Haitian constitution is valid...[/quote]
Any violation of the Haitian constitution (of any constitution, for that matter) is a serious thing and should be understood as such.

[quote]You dismiss the student movement lightly, but I wonder if you had been on the ground in Haiti from 2001 until 2004 if you would do so...[/quote]
What you refer to as the student movement was not what you would like it to be. When I was a UEH student, I always made it a priority to think for myself and develop my own understanding of the country's realities. No, I would not have followed this movement because the country as a whole would gain no benefit from it. Such was my opinion in 2003-04, and recent history seems to give me reason. I do not follow opportunists, never have never will.

[quote]As I have said before, Haiti's laws and its constitution either applies to everyone equally or no on at all...[/quote]
Are you trying to embrace what you had rejected earlier....? Or are you promoting lawlessness..?

[quote]...You would seem to want to give some governments a free pass. Sorry, but not me.[/quote]
Another example of your funny way to interpret what you read.

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:21 pm

[quote]Gelin, when you write that "With regards to the Haitian Constitution, MD is right ONLY when it comes to the FADH question" the implication is that you either A)do not admit that the other violations of Haiti's constitution that occurred from 2001-2004...ever in fact took place or B) these violations did occur and they were of no consequence....[/quote]
How could you understand me? And how could you even conceive point c) the only way for the country to move away for this deadly circle is to embrace what many have called the "Alternance Démocratique", namely replacing an elected governement by another elected governement...and then, build up the charges (if any) against the former team and make them accountable in the court of law - <u>inside the country.</b></u>


[quote]...Again, as I say, you dismiss the student movement, but you and its critics never saw the students who came from places like Carrefour, Delmas, Hinche and Gonaives and other poor areas stand up and show real political courage, much more than those who stayed in North America through the worst of the violence...[/quote]
That's cheap and baseless.

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:17 pm

[quote]Gelin, you seem unable or unwilling to address the violations of Haiti's 1987 constitution that I cite, so I guess we will let that speak for itself.[/quote]
And you seem confused on how to help the country move out of the pit. Let me repeat it: when an elected governement is accused of violating the (Haitian) constitution, those who oppose it should work to remove it ONLY through constitutional means and not through anarchy. Do you understand me now?

[quote]...But of course, a few people stand to make an awful lot of money by keeping people's energy focused squarely on the ancien regime.[/quote]
You are right. Just a few people make money out of it, and that's why they like it so much. You know what I have discovered? More than money, a few people (opportunists) have became famous just by joining the ABC</b> choir. What choir? The A</b>ristide-B</b>ashing-C</b>hoir...

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:40 pm

[quote]I appreciate these quoted opinions from the 2001-02 period. What you forgot to add Deibert is that while exiled in Africa, from February 2004 to July 2006, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the mighty of all mighties, built an underground tunnel from Johanesburg to Port-au-Prince, through which the files of the investigation were made to disappear, reappear and then disappear again...[/quote]
...And if there was too mouch water in the tunnel, he was able to siphon all the files using his loooooong crooked <i>kalimèt</i>....and that would explain why the technocrats and "plus capables" could not not do better when they had their time.

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:17 pm

[quote][quote] when an elected governement is accused of violating the (Haitian) constitution, those who oppose it should work to remove it ONLY through constitutional means and not through anarchy. Do you understand me now? [/quote]

I agree with you Gelin, in an environment, where those means are at their disposal</b>...[/quote]
Those constitutional means were always available to the opposition. But these fake leaders (all of them members of the less than 2% club) have always been afraid of the democratic game, namely free elections. Do you remember this cry: Elections, Oui - Coup d'état, NON? And do you know why? BECAUSE they know they don't stand a chance. Most of them have a name or an audience ONLY in time of troubles and unrest. They disappear in time of peace and stability because they have next to nothing to offer to the nation. And who enjoys being forgotten? For many of them it's simply a matter of survival - the way they understand it.

Constitutional means were always at the disposal of the opposition.

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:55 pm

What should one do with that dance...?

[quote]Not so, Gelin.

First, you should not confuse the long-standing political opponents of Mr. Aristide (the political parties, the elite) with those who began to protest against him beginning in 2002 (the students, trade unions, feminist and anti-neo liberal groups) because of the rancid entity his government had become. They were never one and the same and, for a long time, from the summer of 2002 until the fall of 2003, the political class was in fact playing catch up to the students, not the other way around

Secondly, when you have a legislature that does everything it can to shield one of its own from the light of investigation, when you have police firing at unarmed demonstrators and actively involved in disappearances and political murders, when you have judges being pressured by the executive branch to "legalize" the jailbreaks of known criminals and being paid off by drug dealers, when you have drug trafficking at the heart of the National Palace, you have a regime that is in rebellion against the constitution, period and full stop. The second Aristide government was, in all its particulars, an ongoing coup d'état against Haiti's 1987 constitution.[/quote]
and
[quote]Now Haiti has an elected president, so perhaps we would do better to monitor his progress than to ceaselessly hash over the past.</b> But of course, a few people stand to make an awful lot of money by keeping people's energy focused squarely on the ancien</b> regime.[/quote]

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:40 pm

[quote]How about we agree on this:...[/quote]
This scenario smells like September 30, 1991. How? In one night, Sylvio Claude was killed together with Roger Lafontant (two people who had nothing in common except their political aspirations), and a bloody end was put to the first freely elected governement of the nation.

MD, you can't have it all my friend. Stop making suggestions or offering deals. Just let history make its course.

gelin

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