Should Haiti Bring Back the FADH (Forces Armées d'Haiti)?

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Tidodo_

Should Haiti Bring Back the FADH (Forces Armées d'Haiti)?

Post by Tidodo_ » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:22 pm

Gen yon gwo deba an Ayiti jodi a sou retou ame an. Entansite deba sigjere ke afè retou lame an ka domine sèn politik Ayiti pandan pliziè dizèn ane alavni. Pou nou raple nou, Prezidan-eli an, René Garcia Préval, te deklare o Brezil ke Ayiti pa bezwen lame an e ke lajan peyi an ta depanse pou menteni li ka sèvi pou fè lòt bagay pi enpotan. Gen anpil kesyon ke nap poze tèt nou:

1. Ki enterè Prezidan-eli an, René Garcia Préval, te genyen pou l te fè deklarasyon sa o Brezil? Ki benefis li te espere de deklarasyon sa?

2. Lè nou wè opozisyon deklarasyon an ap rankontre an Ayiti kounye a, eske deklarasyon sa a te fèt twò bonè? Oudimwen, eske se okouran Préval te okouran opozisyon an epi li fè deklarasyon sa pou retire lè lan balon l?

3. Eske Prezidan-eli an gen rezon lè li di ke ame an se yon lan priorite pi piti Ayiti genyen kounye a, lè nou konsidere ke li koute 40% bidjè Ayity?

4. Eske Ayiti ka òganize yon polis fòs ki ka ranplase lame e anmèm tan kenbe lòd, fè respekte lalwa lan peyi an?

5. Akoz de koudeta, eske lame an fè bokou plis mal ke byen?

6. Si lame an koute si chè, eske li bay peyi an yon benefis pou lajan sa li depanse an?

Mwen ta renmen adrese dènye kesyon an. Pou m reponn kesyon sa, mwen ta renmen bay, jan mwen konprann, ròl yon lame tankou lame d' Ayiti te dwe genyen lan yon peyi. Daprè sa mwen konprann, premye ròl yon lame se defann peyi an. Pou nou wè si lame d'Ayiti te ranpli devwa sa, m pral gade ki lè lan istwa d'Ayiti lame te defann peyi a. Mwen pral eseye wè nomb de fwa peyi Ayiti te atake, eske lame te jwe rol defansè li?

a. Premye fwa lame dÁyiti te defann peyi a se te lan gè endepandans lan. Sepandan nou paka konte l, paske se apre gè endepandans lan ke Ayiti vinn egziste tankou yon peyi.

b. Pwochèn fwa ke lame d'Ayiti vinn fè fas a yon peyi etranje se an 1822 lè Prezidan Boyer atake pati ès peyi a ke nou rele jodi a Sant Domingo. Men, atak sa a, se pat pou defann Ayiti li te ye. Okontrè, se te yon atak dap piyanp. Kidonk nou paka konsidere l tankou you egzanp lame d'Ayiti defann peyi a.

c. Pwochèn fwa, se an 1855. Anperè Soulouque eseye anvayi Santo Domingo ankò. Men, sèt fwa si, Dominiken yo repouse ame l lan. Kom se te yon batay dap piyanp li te ye tou, nou pa ka rele l yon egzanp ke lame d'Ayiti te defann peyi an.

d. Sepandan an 1863, sou Prezidan Geffrard, lame d'Ayiti panse ke prezans Espanyol yo lan Santo Domingo te yon menas pou peyi an, yo al fè piwèt sou frontyè a epi yo tonbe pwoteje patizan yon pati politik dominken ki te pèdi lan dènye eleksyon yo. Amiral Espanyol lan, Rubalcava, antre lan pò Pòtoprens lan avèk yon ban bato ame jisko dan. Li egzije Geffrard pou peye yon endamnite e pou bay yon sali de 25 kout kanon. Lame d'Ayiti pat ka fè anyen e Geffrard te oblije bay sali an e peye yon pati lan endamnite an. Sa se yon egzanp kote lame d'Ayiti pat jwe ròl li.

e. Pwochèn okazyon pou lame d'Ayiti defann peyi a se te an 1872. De bato alman parèt lan rad Pòtoprens sou zòd kapitèn Batsch e mande Prezidan Saget pou peye dedomajman pou abi de sitwayen alman te sibi sou Prezidan avan yo. Lame d'Ayiti an te enkapab pwoteje peyi an ankò kont de ti bato gè alman. Prezidan Saget te oblije peye twa mil liv stèling ke blan alman yo te mande.

f. Epi, an 1897, afè Luders lan rive ke nou tout sonje lan istwas d'Ayiti. De bato alman vinn lan rad Pòitoprens lan e mande yon ranson, sali 21 kout kanon, monte drapo alman sou palè an, e peye 20 mil dola. Lame d'Ayiti te enkapab reponn a mank dega sa. Prezidan Sam te oblije aksepte sa yo te mande l lan. Yon lòt fwa ankò, lame d'Ayiti pat ka ranpli ròl li.

g. Answit, le 28 Jiyè 1915, lame ameriken an debake an Ayiti e okipe peyi an pandan 19 an. Pandan tout tan sa, lame d'Ayiti pat ka fè anyen pou defann peyi a.

h. Apre sa, sou Duvalier, te gen anpil fwa ke peyi an te atake. Men se te gouvènman Duvalier ki te atake pa Ayisyen menm, tèl ke group Perpignan an e group Numa a, e non etranje.

i. Lè yo mennen Prezidan Aristide tounen, ankò lame Ayisyen si li te opoze efò an, li pat ka fè anyen.

Kidonk, lan tout egzanp sa yo ke m sot bannou an, lame d'Ayiti pat janm te defann peyi a kont yon fòs etranje keseswa. Se yon lajan ke peyi adepanse pou gran mesi, paske lame an pa janm itil anyen, ot ke repwòch moun ki kont li yo bay. Kidonk, lame an pa jwe ròl li. M pa wè li fasil pou defann yon istwa konsa.

P.S. Tout enfònasyon sa yo, mwen pran yo lan liv Dorsainville lan.

J-M.

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:40 am

Tidodo, mwen pa panse ke nou bezwen lame. Men sepandan, kijan pou nou kontwole fwontYE a? Ak ki sa?
Kijan pou nou kontwole lamE a? Kidonk, byen ke mwen pa dakO ak egzistans lame a. Men nou bezwen gad kOt ak tout fwontyE Ayiti/Dominikani...
Nou pa ta vle fE erE ke titid te fE, ki lakoz nEg tankou Gi filip ak chanblen te ka sikile nan peyi a.
Preval ka fE on deklarasyon konsa paske li konnen ke Zenglendo yo kounye a plis pE pase tout bagay. Paske, nan mwa ki pwal vini yo, pwal gen on bon netwayaj ki pwal fEt. E, petEt, se sa ki kapab bay Ayiti chans ke l tap tann nan. Prizon an sipoze vid pou yo ka ranmase zenglendo ak chimE...

Men anpil, chay pa lou,
leonel

Tidodo_

Post by Tidodo_ » Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:46 am

[quote]Tidodo, mwen pa panse ke nou bezwen lame. Men sepandan, kijan pou nou kontwole fwontYE a? Ak ki sa?
Kijan pou nou kontwole lamE a? Kidonk, byen ke mwen pa dakO ak egzistans lame a. Men nou bezwen gad kOt ak tout fwontyE Ayiti/Dominikani...
Nou pa ta vle fE erE ke titid te fE, ki lakoz nEg tankou Gi filip ak chanblen te ka sikile nan peyi a. [/quote]

Kesyon sa, mwen pa gen tout repons pou li. Pou afè fwontyè an, mwen pa ka sonje ki lè lan tan modèn ke lame d'Ayiti te jwe yon wòl pozitif lan pwoteksyon li. Mwen pa konnin ki chif yo ye, men, m kwè ke lame Dominiken depase nou preske lan tout bagay, kote se zam, antrènman, nonb de solda, elatrye. Rezon ki fè ke Dominiken pa atake nou se opinyon entènasyonal avèk OEA e reaksyon ti peyi Karayib yo kap santi yo menase tou. Sepandan, n ap bezwen yon serten fòs tankou Gadkòt yo, men mwen pa genyen tout repons sou sa.

Pou afè Gi Filip lan, se pa absans lame ki te koz li vinn rive gen siksè lan sal te fè. Se te sistèm legal lan ki pat egziste. Si te genyen yon sistèm legal pou tradyi li lan tribinal aprè sa li te finn fè yo, sa pa tap rive. Yon bon fòs polis ak opinyon e presyon nasyonal te ka rezoud pwoblèm sa. Mwen pa kwè nou bewzen lame pou pouswiv e anpeche zak ilegal lan peyi a. Se dyòb lapolis. Sèlsa pou nou fè, se fè li yon fòs ki gen ponyèt!

J-M.

DPean

Post by DPean » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:10 am

The old Haitian army has always played the role of police in Haiti. That army never had the ability or the inclination to defend the people against nobody. The only people the army has fought are the Haitian people. One thing I would say, whether one is talking about of police of army, the most important things are the mentality of its members and the philosophy of the group. To be more precise, the present police force can do as much harm or more to the country as the old army. The police can overthrow governments too. The police can be as repressive as the army. In the Haitian context, what is the difference when you call an armed group, army or police? Is there any difference between the two? What's in a name?

Tidodo_

Post by Tidodo_ » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:44 pm

[quote]To be more precise, the present police force can do as much harm or more to the country as the old army.[/quote]

True!

J-M.

Anacaona_

Post by Anacaona_ » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:30 am

To go along the line of dpean, I grow up not knowing who belongs to the army and who belongs to the police in Haiti. For some reason, I saw them as being the same. When I was in élémentaire II, in the book J'aime Haiti , there were a couples of conversations between people aiming at teaching us school children certain things. One of them of course was about the difference between the police and the army. Someone said that "polis la avèk lame ya se degouden ak senkant santim" the other person replies that "polis la se pou vòlò, lame ya se pou lènmi."

This conversation sticks to my memory. However, even after seing that in the book, it was still hard for me to differentiate between the two. Like dpean said "The old Haitian Army has always played the role of the police." It was like having two police forces.

If according to the conversation in the book J'aime Haiti la polis se pou vòlò, then did the police force or does the current police force view the nation as robber? And if according to the same conversation the army is for the enemy, then was the nation it's own enemy?

Now as for the conversation about the role of the police, is that the only role the police has to play? Maybe someone can help in defining the role of the police here.

As for the current police force and all the little groups inside of it, I have yet to see how different they are from the old police force or from the Army. Their action is no different from what has been done by the previous force. To support this, I'll say something that I heard about a police officer in my neighborhood in Haiti. The police officer went to Rara with his girlfriend. Someone touched his girlfriend's behind, he broke the person's head with his gun. I view his reaction as abuse of power. I am sure he knows that all kinds of people attend this type of festivity. Now, by deciding to take his girlfriend there, I am sure he knows that anything could happen to her. Also, thousands of people are dancing together and of course with almost no space between two people, therefore, maybe it was an accident. But even if that was not the case, he had no right to do that.

To conclude what I have to say about the police force or the army of Haiti, maybe the problem is within the academy. Of course we will never know what is being taught in the academy unless we decide to join them. I think that Haiti has a lot to do to have a good police force or a good army. Hopefully she can learn from her mistakes.

Anacaona!

Tidodo_

Post by Tidodo_ » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:15 pm

To answer some of the questions I stated above, the issue of the FADH will be a hot potato for President-elect Préval. He should see it as such to avoid political pitfalls. If he wants to avoid those pitfalls, he would need to refrain from imposing the dissolution of the official FADH to those who are still powerful in the country. One way to do that is to ask a referendum to the Haitian people as to whether they want to dissolve the army. That way, the decision would become that of the Haitian people. But, I don't know whether a referendum is constitutional in Haiti?

J-M.

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