Accord Signed Without Full Understanding of It

Post Reply
Tidodo_

Accord Signed Without Full Understanding of It

Post by Tidodo_ » Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:07 pm

I just heard on Haitian Radios in Miami a report, supported by an interview given in Haiti by PM Latortue, whereby he signed an accord with MINUSTA in New York, which according to him, may have given sovereignty rights to MINUSTA over the police force, while he did not fully understand that at the time of signing. Under the accord signed by PM Latortue in the name of the Haitian Government, Haiti would need the approval of MINUSTA if they wanted to secure the assistance of another country to complement the work of MINUSTA. According to the PM words, that paragraph among others he has no problems with, would put:"la police nationale sous la tutelle de MINUSTA"in contradiction with the Haitian constitution.

He indicated that once he realized that, he contacted Valdes (MINUSTA) and is now sending a letter prepared by Chief of Police Andresol (Police) requesting amending two clauses in the contract, which are anti-constitutional. He indicated that the document must be ratified by the Parliament to make it legal, and that if correction is not made as requested, it will not be ratified by Parliament making it void and null. He conceded that after signing the contract, there was one Ministry who should have reviewed it and which has not done so before he signed it.

Does anyone have a copy of the story or the signed accord? We need clarification on this latest Haitian government display of incompetence, if you analyze the PM words. Signing a contract at this level, which yields some level of the country sovereignty to other countries, without it being read thoroughly by the PM himself, and approved by a number of ministries after being revised by a battery of lawyers is hard to believe. I would have hard problems believing it if I did not hear PM Latortue himself admitting the error. I would like to read the full story in print.

J-M.

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:57 am

Tidodo, how valid or lawful could that be from an illegal Government?

Anything that had happened in the past two years cannot be legal.

Negotiations of any sort in Haiti can only be done by a Democratic Govt, representing the People of Haiti.

I see Latortue as the most Incompetent one in our History.

leonel

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:38 pm

Tidodo wrote: [quote]Michel, do you know for a fact that Future President Preval was aware of this? If no, why do you speculate on it when everybody else in the press is questioning the solo ride the PM took on this when he was not supposed to be riding at all?[/quote]
It was not my intent to go to a fishing expedition here and speculate on it.

For a fact! The answer is no. However, it's common practice in international negotiations that high ranking officials of concerned country are briefed on current and future negotiations involving international and national security.

The press can only see the PM taking a solo ride because this is what they want them to see, the interim government “en la personne du” PM, LaTortue who is on his way out.
The trick is to use the actual PM like a decoy for the press to run after while serious negotiations are being unfolded somewhere else.

The big question Tidodo: Why the Preval Team has not made any comment yet about a serious issue like this one??

If they step forward and acknowledge about this issue, the people have the right to question them on:
What do they know and when do they know it?
This is a Washington, DC's style question that is hard to dodge.

I can be sure that those questions need to be answered with transparency and may be with full disclosure if the Haitian people especially the grassroots community are concerned about their future.

Let's wait and see, because I am sure at the end of the day one could see who are now what Jaf loves to call buffoons, clowns, stooges, puppets serving their masters.

Jwet la pa fasil mon fre!!

Michel

Tidodo_

Post by Tidodo_ » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:50 pm

[quote]The big question Tidodo: Why the Preval Team has not made any comment yet about a serious issue like this one??

If they step forward and acknowledge about this issue, the people have the right to question them on:
What do they know and when do they know it?
This is a Washington, DC's style question that is hard to dodge. [/quote]

Michel,

If we do so, we would change the subject. Instead of the PM justifying why he signed an accord without consultation, the question becomes:"Why did Preval know about it and did not do anything?"

J-M

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:24 pm

Tidodo/J-M wrote: [quote]If we do so, we would change the subject. Instead of the PM justifying why he signed an accord without consultation, the question becomes:"Why did Preval know about it and did not do anything?"[/quote]
J-M, I am not questioning the action of the PM, LaTortue, but the contents and the rationale of this document which purpose is to professionalize the Haitian Police Force.
Nou mem ti neg Ayisyen nou gen tandans mache a dwat e a goch al siyin dokiman pou pep la e pi le bagay yo pase mal, nou leve kokin, swadizan ke nou pat konprand dokiman an.
Se abi ke yap fe nou paske nou se yon ti pep nwa.

Min le nou gade byen nap we ke lide nou yo foure tet yo nan de sitiasyon kote ke yo poze de zak dezespere ki dan laveni ou byen le fiti montre ke neg sa yo pat byen prepare(didn't do their homework) e ki brid soukou, yo sele e bride (which could seen as “duress”) e fose yo siyen de kontra ki pa neseserman nan avantaj pep la an general min nan avantaj yon ti gwoup de moun ki yo memm konnin kisa pral rive (not only they did their homework, but they received all the right answers way in advance).

Mem jan an 1915 a 1934 yo te profesyonalize La Garde National d'Haiti ki te vinn sevi kon yon machinn represyon e kraze zo, profesyonalize La Police National kap byen sevi pou mem pinpimp yo anko.

Pou kisa se avek lapolis yo komanse??
Pou ki sa yo pa komanse avek institusyonalize profese lekol, administrate lekol ak lopital, system edikasyon, sante e touristik peyi a pito?
Pou kisa yo konmanse avek profesyonalize mesye kraze zo pito??
Eske se pou yo kraze zo pi byen??

Lide nou yo gen komm devwa e obligasyon pou yo pran responsabilite yo an min e bay pep la meye sevis posib kelkeswa sikonstans la!!

Pa vinn di nou apre ke nou pat konnin!!

Lack of knowledge/ignorance is not a defense.


Tidodo wrote: [quote]the question becomes:"Why did Preval know about it and did not do anything?"[/quote]
What can Preval do??
Haiti is at the negotiation table empty handed with no bargaining chips!
But Haitians have sovereignty and pride which are precious and priceless to them as a people!

Yes!! But those are sentimental values.

Protectorate or not, the Preval's government would not have any problem with that!
This will be another five years trouble free with no coup d'etat at the horizon.

If he does well!! Of course!! :wink:

Michel

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:09 am

Michel papa, you're on a roll!

Gen kEk jou mwen wE w ap frape seryezman. Konpliman, se pa paske mwen dakO avE w non. Men, sa w di yo fE sans pou mwen.

Sorry, mwen jis te vle fE ti rale sa sou michelnau.

L'union fait la Force,

leonel

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:33 pm

Thanks Leonel for your warm and sincere encouragement.

LaTortue is not the first to make mistakes and would not be the last .
Since the beginning starting with:
Anacahona, queen of the Indians was ambushed by the Spaniards.
Toussaint L'Ouverture known as a smart general was lured and sent to France where he dies.
Jean Pierre Boyer was put in a position where Haiti had to pay for its independence. Some say that he did not have any choice. Haiti, first black republic in the world was under an international embargo.
Stenio Vincents's government did do any serious complaint when 30,000 Haitians were massacred at the border of the Dominican Republic.
But complain to whom? There was no United Nations Organization at that time.
Elie Lescot declared war to Germany, a super power at that time, putting the life of Haitians and the entire nation in danger. What was he thinking?? May be someone told him to do so.
Aristide was overthrown, twice by the same people. The first time shame on them, the second time, shame on him. He should have known better.
LaTortue have been making gaffes like an elephant running in a crystal store.

First, calling the rebels, freedom fighters.

Second, telling Haitians mothers to eat mais Moulin when they were asking the government to subsidize the price of rice.

Third, he said after a peaceful demonstration that the protestors were rioting, therefore the actions of the police force were justified” Nou tire deye yo, gen ladan yo ki tombe, rest yo kouri chape poul yo.

Fourth, he went to New York, and signed had hoc a contract admitting that he did not read truthfully the content of the contract therefore putting Haiti's National uncompromising with US Homeland Security.

It is common practice for the outgoing government to brief the in coming government on all the current and future contracts and activities that may have an impact on the future of the country.
Let's stop passing judgments on our leaders who have sometimes took tough decisions under tough circumstances.
We all are living in a house of glass. Let's focus on the message and not on the messenger.

Does anyone know if the contract has been revealed to the public!


Michel

Tidodo_

Post by Tidodo_ » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:03 am

[quote]Let's stop passing judgments on our leaders who have sometimes took tough decisions under tough circumstances.
We all are living in a house of glass. Let's focus on the message and not on the messenger.

Does anyone know if the contract has been revealed to the public! [/quote]

Michel,

First of all, thank you for the historical perspective going back to Anacaona. But, personally, I would not compare the circumstances under which Toussaint was, or even Anacaona, if not to say Jean-Pierre Boyer, to that of PM Latortue. I cannot remember the name of any last public figure who signed a contract and later used as a defense that he did not read it nor fully comprehend it. Remember, that claim is only a defense or an excuse. More often than not, the public does not know the full story until after many years have passed.

Considering the circumstances of the signing, it was easier for him not to do it instead of violating so many laws. He could have claimed he no longer has the authority, as he declared to the Haitian public that he was taking care only of "affaires courantes." He could have requested that so many different ministries/departments review it, that by the time they are over reviewing it, he would have sunk back into oblivion, which is exactly where he belongs, perhaps in a jail cell too after due process.

Nobody is telling in public why he signed the contract. Certainly, he did know the risk taking in signing it without proper authorityand proper departmental review. He must have weighted the REWARD for doing so against that risk. Perhaps, you can shed some lights on the reward. Your defense of this indefensible action and your statement that he is:"making gaffes like an elephant running in a crystal store." tells us a few things:

1. Latortue is pretty bad at following orders, thus upsetting his sponsors.
2. It is high noon for the movers and shakers to do damage control.

There is a part I don't understand in your quote. I can't identify the messenger. Is that you, or him? In any case, who is sending the message?

As far as the contract, I heard many analyses of it on the radio. I believe the two pargraphs in question, concerning the euphemism "professionalization de la police," are out there on the Internet. I don't know about the rest.

J-M.

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:55 am

Tidodo wrote: [quote]More often than not, the public does not know the full story until after many years have passed.[/quote]
That is correct Tidodo. The public always asks for transparency. Unfortunately some information among countries can not be fully disclosed.
As you know, information is more likely rated as confidential, classified, secret, and top secret.
Tidodo wrote:[quote]Your defense of this indefensible action and your statement that he is:” making gaffes like an elephant running in a crystal store." tells us a few things: [/quote]
I am not trying to be the devil advocate, but LaTortue was doing a dirty job, the kind of job that somebody had to do, and no one wants to do!!
Being absent from the country for more than 40 years, and coming to fill the shoes of a president who was wrongfully removed from power and still beloved by his people was an enormous task for him to accomplish. He was against all odds and his chance to do well was predictable.
Tidodo wrote:[quote]There is a part I don't understand in your quote. I can't identify the messenger. Is that you, or him? In any case, who is sending the message?[/quote]
Tidodo, the sad story is that Aristide spent his time chasing the elite, and preaching his ideology, and sending his followers to die. LaTortue at the other end of the political spectrum spent his two years in a safari trip a la Dick Cheney chasing Lavalas Chimeres. Nou fe plongaye deye yo, gen la dan yo ki tombe, gen sak leve e kouri chape poul yo!

Preval's job will be just the opposite. Even before his inauguration as president, he started working without pay promoting his new government.

He is following the money trail; getting help from others countries, meeting with other heads of state and promoting job creation.
He is not here to solve Haitian politics, or to pay lobbyists and activists to promote his government, he can do it himself, because he is a “do it yourself man”.
He is maintaining a Home Depot motto: Do it yourself, and we will be there to help you!
An nou pa chita di:
Kisa peyi d'Ayiti nou an genyen la ato a pou ofri nou :?: :?: :?:

Min an nou di poti ki sa nou kap fe pou nou bali yon ti pousad pou pi devan. :idea: :idea: :idea:

Bay piti pa chich! Se jes la ki konte!!

Michel

Tidodo_

Post by Tidodo_ » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:52 pm

LaPatriote,

[quote]Se premier fwa kom ou fam kreyol m'ap fe impertinence sa poum antre nan konvesation gason.[/quote]

Pa gen zafè fanm ak gason sou fowòm lan. Menm si se ta mizilman ou ta ye, tout moun se moun isi an. Se valè lide w yo sèlman ki konte. Tout okontrè, sa fè nou anpil plezi lè tout moun patisipe lan diskisyon yo.

Kant a zafè Latortue sove Preval lan istwa sa, mwen pa kwè Latortue se yon nèg osi jenere. Li te gen anpil eskiz poulipa siyen akò an.

J-M.

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:06 pm

Lapatriote ekri: [quote]Se premier fwa kom ou fam kreyol m'ap fe impertinence sa poum antre nan konvesation gason.[/quote]
Lapatriote, byenveni nan ti rale chita sou koze safe premye minis LaTortue ki pran desisyon siyin kontra sa pou « outsource » sekirite peyi bay yon group lot moun. Dessalines vire sou vant li le li tande yon bagay konsa!!
Lapatriote ekri :[quote]Si Latortue pat siyin ako sa, yo ta kabab vin mande Preval poul siyin li.[/quote]
Nan binyin toutouni, pagin kache lonbrit !!
Se posib ke jodi a ou demin, kontra UN sa te pral tombe sou jamb Preval poul te siyinn li.
Min konseye politik li yo di ke yo poko memm antre an fonksyon, e ke li tro bone pou yo siyin yon kontra cho konsa.

Kom LaTortue nan mal, an nou kite misye siyin li. Nan mal nan mal met !!
He decided to be the fall guy. It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it !!

Tidodo di : [quote]mwen pa kwè Latortue se yon nèg osi jenere[/quote]
AHH Tidodo ak Lapatriote se 2 bon gren Ayisyen vre !!
Yo sispek ke gen yon magouy kap fet sou tet pep la!!

I remember one of us said: What will be the reward for LaTortue?
Good question!
LaTortue is not stupid like we think he is. :D :D
For taking the fall, he is being rewarded in both sides, by doing a double dipping from Preval and the UN.
Total impunity!! No criminal records what so ever and Ladulce vita in Florida!! :D :D
Avek yon dekabes extraodine konsa, job Jaf ak lot konpayel li yo ki mande anraje pou yo trinnin LaTortue devan tribunal kriminel ap pi difisil pou fet.

Politik!! Politik!! Koubabo!!!
nou gin yon obligasyon anve pep la pou nou kinbe la, paske nou pa gen dwa bay legin

Michel

Post Reply