DIASPORA OU MINUSTAH, il faut choisir

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T-dodo

DIASPORA OU MINUSTAH, il faut choisir

Post by T-dodo » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:34 am

[quote]

Dans ce débat où des noms que je connais et dont je n'ai aucune raison de mettre en doute la bonne foi (même si nous nous sommes trouvés dans des camps différents) protestent contre ce qui pour eux n'est rien d'autre qu'une campagne de diffamation contre René Préval, et où des noms que je connais sans doute encore mieux rejettent leurs protestations, je voudrais souligner que l'on est en train de laisser de côté la seule considération qui réellement importe: René Préval sera-t-il capable de tirer le pays de son marasme?

Les anti-Préval devraient savoir ou ne pas oublier que dans la logique passionnelle des foules plus on dénonce, à tort ou à raison, les aspects négatifs de quelqu'un, plus ses partisans le trouvent aimable. J'avoue que dans la sursaturation actuelle des "diabolisations" j'ai du mal à me faire une opinion solide sur prat
iquement tout personnage politique qui occupe le devant de la scène et, en général, je réserve mon jugement, sauf devant des preuves tangibles et irréfutables.

Posons la seule question qu'il faut poser aujourd'hui et tout le reste est littérature ou même pinaillage: qui (personne ou équipe) ou qu'est-ce qui peut "sauver" le pays aujourd'hui ? En ce qui concerne Préval, je ne vois pas pourquoi il pourra faire demain, avec un pouvoir réduit du fait de la présence de la Minustah (qui dit être encore là pour au moins dix ans encore) ce qu'il n'a pas pu faire hier comme président en fait tout-puissant. Ne pourrait-on pas accuser ceux qui s'accrochent à Préval de manquer ou de mémoire ou de lucidité ou d'imagination?

J'ai déjà dit que Manigat, un homme des plus valables et certainement des plus présidentiables, ne me paraît pas être l'homme de l'heure. Si Manigat peut être un excellent chauffeur, il n'est pas à mon avis un bon mécanicien. Or il faut d'abord un bon mécanicien
ou de bons mécaniciens pour réparer notre voiture en panne avant qu'elle ne puisse prendre la route. Le premier tort de Manigat est qu'il ne croit pas en la Diaspora dont les membres à son avis ne peuvent être que de bons acolytes, de bons "secrétè", à l'ombre de son feuillage; car c'est à peu près ce qu'il a eu à dire à Siméus, avec une incroyable condescendance. Je sais que je vais faire hurler plus d'un qui, pour ne pas changer, diront encore de moi pis que pendre, mais je suis vacciné. Je maintiens que nous avons besoin chez nous des Siméus, des Mourra, des Michaëlle Jean --j'aurai bientôt une liste bien plus longue--, de tous ceux-là qui ont su faire florès ailleurs où leurs énergies n'ont pas été bridées. Les autres aussi, bien sûr. Et je veux les voir tout de suite chez nous dans le salon non dans les dépendances; un point c'est tout. Et ceux qui ont été duvaliéristes, lavalassiens, putschistes? Qu'est-ce que je m'en fous! Pourvu qu'ils soient prêts à aller aujourd'hui dans la bo
nne direction. Si Aristide pouvait nous "sauver" demain, je serais tout de suite aristidien; si Préval pouvait nous "sauver" demain, je serais tout de suite prévalien. Mais de leur échec passé on ne peut extrapoler ou prévoir que l'échec; ou à tout le moins on ne voit pas pourquoi on devrait les faire passer avant d'autres. Si la Minustah pouvait nous "sauver", je serais tout de suite "minustien", mais de son échec actuel je ne peux extrapoler ou prévoir que l'échec. Un peu de pragmatisme que diable!

Sans la Diaspora point de salut. Sans la Diaspora pleinement intégrée avec tous ses membres citoyens à part entière de la nation haitienne, tout ce que nous allons faire sera "lavé main suyé a tè". Le choix, je l'ai déjà dit, et ne nous leurrons pas, est ou Minustah ou Diaspora. La Minustah restera ce qu'elle a été jusqu'ici, c'est à dire ECHEC. C'est pour cela que la Diaspora doit entrer en scène. Le salut ne pourra être que dans la libération des
forces, de toutes les forces de la Diaspora. Pas demain, mais tout de suite, NOW.

Pour la Diaspora le 7 février qui sera une journée des dupes, n'est pas une échéance.

Ceux qui pensent et disent que l'intégration pleine et entière de la Diaspora avec citoyenneté haitienne indestructible doit se faire selon un processus évolutif, se mettent le doigt dans l'œil jusqu'à l'aisselle. Comme il s'agit d'un blocage la plupart du temps de mauvaise foi, le processus doit être non point évolutif mais révolutionnaire. Toujours en privilégiant "l'Arme de la Dialectique" sur la "Dialectique des Armes".. There is no freedom of tomorrow. Freedom is always NOW. La liberté se prend et ne se demande pas. C'est pour cela que toute la Diaspora doit boycotter et les élections du 7 février et ses résultats. La Diaspora ne doit pas attendre le bon vouloir de citoyens de l'intérieur --en fait d'une minorité de retardataires, s'entend, gueulards et débiles-- pour se reconnaître eux-m
êmes citoyens haitiens à part entière. La Diaspora qui sur le plan de l'économie du pays "plays the game" (à 80% presque) "can and must also set the rules".

Un Haitien sur 5 et peut-être même sur 4 (et même si c'était sur 10 ou sur 20) vit à l'étranger. Puisque systématiquement sa participation et comme élément électeur et comme élément éligible est exclue, les prochaines élections ne pourront pas exprimer la volonté authentique de l'ensemble de la nation haitienne. Nous allons irrémédiablement vers un "bouilli-vidé" légal qui sera sans lendemain. J'avais dit à Gérard Latortue qu'à moins de se battre pour mettre fin le plus rapidement possible à la tutelle de facto (et je lui avais indiqué la "voie étroite" pour y arriver et qu'il n'a jamais voulu prendre) il ne pourrait jamais réussir. Je tiens à dire dès aujourd'hui à Leslie Manigat ou à qui que ce soit qui sera élu demain que, menant la guerre sans toutes les forces totalement libérées de la Diasp
ora, il ne pourra être qu'un "Soussou" vaincu de la Minustah.

Diaspora NOW ou Minustah NOW, that's the question.

Gérard Bissainthe
31 janvier 2006[/quote]

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:11 pm

[quote]Diaspora NOW ou Minustah NOW, that's the question.[/quote]This question was asked and answered before on different form :
See Sovereignty or Security? (from Leonel Jean Baptiste)
It depends!!
The MINUSTAH is a coalition force mandate by the International Community, and at the request of the Haitian authority to provide security to the Haitian people.
This is basically the scope of work of the MINUSTAH which should not be permanent but temporarily.
They have recognized that they have failed in their mission; insecurity in Haiti is alive and kicking more than ever. The General in charge of this mission publicly admitted that the solution to Haiti's problem, especially Cite Soleil is economic and social and not military and policing. The new government needs to find ways to include the disfranchised citizen as part of the Haitians society he said.

The D
iaspora however is an extension of the Haitian society; therefore Haitians don't have to make a choice. The Diaspora is and has been part of our life.
It's just asking an abused and battered kid: Who would you prefer, the social worker or your dad? The Diaspora is Just like a alcoholic dad who make a good pay check, and put food on the table, but show no respect for his family. the Diaspora needs to take charge of its responsibility and change its behavior toward the brothers and sisters back home.
The Diaspora needs to step down from its pedestal, and level the plain field in order to have a decent communication.
In the eyes of the Haitian people back home, the Diaspora looks like a bunch of fat cats and commanders in a plantation, with mission to straight them out according to their know how.
Bissainthe wrote:[quote] La Diaspora qui sur le plan de l'économie du pays "plays th
e game" (à 80% presque) "can and must also set the rules".[/quote] Not so fast cowboy!! The Diaspora can not be player and referee at the same time. This attitude is wrong, and could create an unfair advantage situation.
The Diaspora should stop playing Coupe kloure's song to the locals by telling them:
Manje manje'm bam bon jan, aaah wap manje manje'm wap bam'm move jan.
Manje manje'm bam bon jan, aaah wap manje manje'm wap bam'm move jan.
They are telling the Haitians back home that they are supporting them financially and they ought to have respect.
But the respect should be mutual and not one way! Otherwise, the locals will continue singing Aretha Franklin's song, give me some R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
The Diaspora ought to know that they have no freebie over the locals. They have to jump hoops and play by the Constitutional rules like everybody else.
Today are Simeus and Mour
a who are imposing on them, in 5 years who are going to be next??
Until they live and invest in the country, until they organize and participate in community base programs, until they have functional political parties that have clear and defined economic and social programs tailored according to the Haitians needs they will be regarded as a bunch of opportunists searching to make a quick buck at the expense of the locals and tiptoe out.
Showing up their faces every 5 years and want to be president.

Homees don't play that!

Michel

T-dodo

Post by T-dodo » Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:30 am

After reading the above exchange, I have one question. Do the Haitians living in Haiti need those living in the diaspora more than the ones living in the diaspora need them? It seems from the above exchange that only the diaspora, if I can call them like that, has obligations, i.e. they must be sensitive to the feelings of those still living in the country. The reality is that the lack of sensitivity to others' feelings is a Haitian problem. Without getting out of the subject, that may also be at the basis of our inability to be strong as a collectivity and to achieve synergies like other people do. Another question that is triggered by my first is: “Are Haitians so thin-skinned (susceptible) that they routinely let their emotions lead them even when it is against their own vital interests?”

It is easy to jump on the band wagon against some in the diaspora who are so proud of their accomplishments that they rough some feathers when they g
o back to Haiti. While their action betrays a certain lack of sensitivity, that I must presume they learned while growing up in Haiti, I doubt it applies to all diasporas who return to Haiti. Besides, if the Haitians' pride is so affected, why don't they show to those diasporas that they know more than they do? That reaction would have been more productive than the current negative ones of demonizing the diasporas, while they still do need their wire transfers and savings and that they would have been better off continuing to encourage them to send them instead of whining about their feelings being hurt.

The recent electoral campaign highlighted how these obligations demanded of the diasporas are so one-sided. If Bissainthe is right, the condescending treatment of Simeus by Manigat is shameful and laughable. Manigat speaks a lot of French and is full of a lot of esoteric theories, but in practice he does not have much to show for them. I can't remember anything he accomplished or he was about to accom
plish during his short-lived presidency and during his tenure as a political leader.

The bottom line in this debate is that Haiti is in dire needs. The diaspora remains the only hope outside of Haiti that it has. There is a historic opportunity for Haitians to take advantage of this hope. For, it won't be there for ever. The children of the diaspora do not consider themselves Haitians, and for good reasons. They were not born in Haiti. They know nothing about life in Haiti. They can barely speak or understand kreyol. And, frankly, besides making them like to eat “griots,” we did a bad job making them Haitians like the Jewish people and perhaps the Cubans did to their children. Also, the western countries have been tireless in their efforts to limit emigration from Haiti, and they have been successful at it to the point that they send troops in Haiti to control emigration from there instead of doing it at their borders at the point of arrival. This is where our elite failed miserably to understand the
motivations of the occupiers and they foolishly invited them to invade the country.

Anyway, my guess is that after 50 years, when the first and second generation of diasporas disappear, Haiti will experience a considerable reduction in the amount of wire transfers received from Haitians living in the diaspora. Instead of whining, Haitians living in Haiti should try to take advantage of this investment opportunity and use it as a catalyst to develop the country. But, don't hold your breath. Historically, we have shown little imagination when it comes to developing Haiti.

T-dodo

Post by T-dodo » Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:33 am

Serge,

Who has more to lose? The one who has more to lose should stop whining and start taking care of his/her own priorities.

Jean-Marie

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:26 am

I couldn't wait any longer without putting in my one cent.
There are some great points which you guys covered very well. I also have to point a major problem which JM touched earlier. I never thought of that one. What will happen when the generation who is helping Haiti overseas? Wow! How do we fix this major problem?
I don't know. I am really lost.
We need to think harder Guys. For, my kids would love to visit Haiti. But, I don't know about helping when Mommy and I are retired or dead.
I have to think harder on this issue.
Interesting one!
L'union fait la Force
leonel

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:49 am

Jean Marie wrote: [quote]Who has more to lose? The one who has more to lose should stop whining and start taking care of his/her own priorities.[/quote]
This is a typical carbon copy, Xerox view of a hardcore Diasporian that could be translating as follows:
Eske se mwen bezwen w ou biyen se w bezwen' m! Kidont, w pa gen dwa a la pawol e komanse pa okipe tet pa w, paske tre biyento, mwen pap la pou'm fe w la charite.

It's sad and should not have to be this way.
It is not necessary true what Jean Marie said about the new generation of Haitians don't care that much about Haiti because they are Americans.
If they have the opportunity to vote and have a greater participation in politics, they would probably invest in Haiti.
Haitian-American's Investment is not like “mom and pap” stores anymore, it's big business that requires multiple partners and investors.

In additi
on, the older generation is tired and wants to go home. After so many years abroad, they don't want to live with their kids and grandkids.
They have enough money to retire, and to invest in their native country.
But they don't trust the locals, this is why they want to be in charge in every shape or form.

Serge has been reading the mind of the locals! He said not so fast!! We need to have a mutual respect and understanding here! W pa kap ap vinn fe'm filalang avek greenback e monte sou lokal yo kankou se nan jading papa'w wap antre. Simeus, Moura e elatriye di ke Ayiti se jadin papa yo ke li we memm jan ak tout lot locals yo.
The locals said yes, but you are a long time absentees, and you have to comply with our constitutional laws.
You have to show some respect, and above all trust.

If the Diaspora thinks that it could arrogantly force itself into the locals' life and impose its way of living to them, then Ha
iti would be nothing but a modernized plantation with “Oreo's Cookies” as masters and commanders.

I hope things will change for the better!!

Michel

T-dodo

Post by T-dodo » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:00 pm

By the way, Michel, my poor and small 2001 edition of the American Heritage dictionnary was already having enough trouble defining precisely for me the word Diaspora. :roll: Now, you killed it completely with the word Diasporian. :D Of course, I am yet to grapple with the concept of "hard core Diasporian." :? But, that's another story.

Jean-Marie

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:51 pm

She wrote: [quote]nous rejoignions la peuple lorsqu'il a décidé de choisir un homme qui a déjà fait ses preuves pour occuper la présidence d'Haiti. René Préval[/quote]

Ki “nous" de la Diaspora sa ke madam sa ap pale a!!
Fok "nous" ka identifiye tet li.

Paske Diaspora sa gen anpil nous la dann !

M'konnin ke « nous » sa te di pep la pa al nan seleksiyon.

Nous sa te di pou pep la pa sipote pezon'n.

Nous sa yo te di ke yap gate seleksiyon an.

Men kouniyen la « nous » sa ap vinn di ke nous rejoignions le pep !

Pep la deside pral nan eleksiyon san nous[/b:9d4e072
a4d] e li pral chwazi moun ke'li vle (Preval, Kplim, Baker) I don't care!

Lap fe chwa li e lap rete ak chwa li.

Preval rale ko li sou “nous” sa yo de pi biyen lontan.

Pati Preval la rele LESPWA !! Eske nous tande!!!!!!!

nous don't get it do you ??

Kouniyen la, « nous » ap vinn fe ti sousou, band gate manje !! band sanwont, move pedan, mete pep inosan do za do nwa ak milat, e konniyen la nous ap pale de ziniyon !!.

What a pity !

Se sak fe ke yo pap jan pran « nous » o seriye.

Erezman Preval kon nous tou e li konnin ak ki yes poul travay!!!

Why don't nous pick up the pieces of their dead party and move on?

Sa di net le pep la pa vle nous!!!

What a pity !!

Ke [b:9d4e072
a4d]nous al chache yon kote met bouda li e ret tan ke pep la fe chwa li!!

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:11 pm

Mesiye yo ekri:[quote]Yo di desizyon Gwo Jera pou di pÈp la pa gen dwa pran lari pou manifeste chwa li apre l fin vote a se blag. N AP SòTI POU MONTRE LEMONDANTYE PèP NOU AN VLE LAPè, JISTIS AK YON LAVI MIYò'.[/quote]


Se bagay vagabon fe, lobey, dezod, eskandal!!
Pep la finn vote deja!!! Kidonk Li pa bezwen pran la ri anko!!!
Se pa sa kap fe resilta vinn pi plis!!
Gwo Jera di yo pa plan la ri pou rezon sekirite, pou nous pa touye yo, pou yo al jwen fanmi yo!! Si yon bagay pete nan lari potoprins e ke gen moun inosan ki mouri yo kap di ke se aktivis yo kap fe insitasiyon a la violans, e viktim yo gen dwa prosekite moun kap pouse dife nan la ri lokal kou intenasiyonal!!
Band gate manje, Kite pep la viv!!!
Li bouke ak eskandal sa yo!!
Yo bezwen la pe!!!
Pep la se moun debiyen ke y
o ye!! Yo pa vagabon anko!!

Nou ekri:[quote]NOU DI PREVAL WI, PANZOUIS NON![/quote]

Intekwe te di ke nous pa pwale nan seleksiyon!!
Gade nous kounyen la, nous pi cho devan band nan.
Preval se LESPWA Haiti e pep Ayisiyen tout antiye!!
Li di Lavalas pou yo naje pou yo sa soti nan la merde ke yo ye jodi a!!

Odasiye!!! Odasiye!!

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:12 am

PEp analfabEt, li pa bEt!
Yo te konprann ke pEp la t'ap kite y'al banboche le 7 fevrie... YO pap sis.
Michel ou wE, mwen menm mwen itilize YO.
Yo pa konprann ki kout gidon kifEt la. Adje, Yo konprann Ayisyen sOt tout bon.
Kounye a, Yo ap montre si se Demokrasi ke Yo te bezwen vrEman.
PEp la te di li pa pwal nan eleksyon. Tout Zenglendo kouri mete non yo pou kandida. E byen, sa Yo rele AnalfabEt yo. FE Yo anvi fE koken. Yo te bezwen bay on gwoup Zenglendo ak kravat pouvwa'a pou dezan. Zo pwason an kole nan gOj Yo. Yo pa wE kijan pou yo gate jounen jodi'a.
Ti nEg ap leve, frape kO'l atE. Yap fE zak malonEt pou yo te kab gate eleksyon an. So far, so good!
Ti kriye, ti kriye, wa Yan!
Ou pale de Demokrasi! FE'm wE'w san wont.
L'union fait la Force
leonel

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:31 pm

Leonel ekri:[quote]Yo pa wE kijan pou yo gate jounen jodi'a.
Ti nEg ap leve, frape kO'l atE. Yap fE zak malonEt pou yo te kab gate eleksyon an. So far, so good![/quote]

Bravo Leonel!! W biyen di mon che!!
Yap chache mwayen pou yo gate eleksiyon an !!
Yes !! indeed So far, so good!!
Pep la fatige, li bezwen yon prezidan!!

Kinbe la mon fre!!

Michel

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:50 am

Mesye, fO nou trE vijilan wi.

Sanble ke nEg yo ap pare yon bouyon-mimi pou nou...
Yo pwal montre ke Baker ak Preval genyen preske menm kantite vot, pou yo pase pou lOT tou'a. Apre, se la yo pwal ba nou kou-de-gras la.

Ou kwE se vre?

Nou konprann sa sa vle di? Si li fEt vre. GE sivil ki vle di nan langaj nasyon zini "POLITICAL UNREST"! KOm rezilta, Ayiti pwal pran on okipasyon jan levanjil la te di'l la. Se pa ke nou pa lan lokipasyon non? Men kounye'a, l'ap pi legal!

Mwen pa vle konkli anyen, men mwen oblije kase ti moso ban nou. Paske, si nou fEmen je nou, malfektE ap fE nou sak pa sa.

Se mEt kO ki veye kO.

Mwen met van nan vwal mwen!

leonel

T-dodo

Post by T-dodo » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:43 am

Serge,

Kesyon mwen genyen: Eske si Preval monte, Etazini pral finanse oposisyon an kont li tankou yo te fè atravè Jesse Helms kont Aristid? Tankou yo te oblije aksepte ke afrikendisid yo gen yon majorite ke yo pa kapab bafwe demokratikman, eske kounye ya yo pral oblije di elit lan ke amwens yo fè magouy, se jete lajan chanje gouvènman kant pèp la pral toujou eli yon pitit li oubyen youn ki reprezante aspirasyon li. Men, gen lè na p pale twò vit. Ann tann rezilta yo avan nou fè spekilasyon.

Jean-Marie

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