The call for tough arms controls - Voices from Haiti

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Charles Arthur
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 7:35 am

The call for tough arms controls - Voices from Haiti

Post by Charles Arthur » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:32 am ... ff6106.pdf

‘When there are guns, there are more victims. Before it was the macoutes [paramilitaries led by former dictators Francois and Jean-Claude Duvalier] and former [demobilised] soldiers who had the guns. Now, it's the people who live in your own neighbourhood who commit the violence.'
— Malya, a woman living in Martissant, a Port-au-Prince neighbourhood, November 2005

Armed violence continues to ravage the lives of many people in Port-au-Prince, the capital of Haiti, despite the presence of the UN Stabilisation Mission in Haiti (MINUSTAH). 1 Armed groups in the poor areas — some loyal to former President Aristide, some loyal to rival political factions, and some criminal gangs — have battled against the Haitian National Police (HNP) and UN military, and against each other.

In just one medical mission i
n Port-au-Prince, some 1,400 people were admitted with gunshot wounds between December 2004 and October 2005. ‘We're still receiving three gunshot victims a day. And there are more who go to the general hospital — or who are killed,' said the mission's head, Ali Besnaci of Médecins sans Frontières. ‘This is like a war. There are always confrontations between the gangs and the UN peacekeeping force, MINUSTAH'. Many, if not most, of the victims have been innocent civilians.

Human-rights groups have documented murders and kidnappings committed by the many armed groups, extrajudicial executions carried out by the HNP, and deaths resulting from the alleged indiscriminate shooting by UN troops. 2 The scale of rape in Port-au-Prince is also believed to be directly linked to the proliferation of arms.

The Control Arms campaign carried out several interviews in Haiti in November 2005 and records here the voices of at least some of the people who bear the cost of the world's continuing failur
e to control the arms trade.

Read the whole document online at ... ff6106.pdf

Charles Arthur
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 7:35 am

Who has been distributing arms in poor districts?

Post by Charles Arthur » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:02 am

Yes let's get to bottom of things. Who has been distributing arms in poor districts of Port-au-Prince - since 2004 and before 2004....? I heard that in Cite Soleil it was the Mews family back in the mid-1990s. I also heard that it was the Lavalas Family party in the late 1990s, and especially the early 2000s.

Seeing as Richard Morse of RAM and the Oloffson Hotel posted the following on the Corbet list (there is something interesting on there once in about every 500 posts), I guess he won't mind me posting it here too.

He wrote in reply to a US-based journalist who had written that hard proof and not rumors are needed to understand what is going on in Haiti:
"Back in 1997 one of my dancers said <they're handing out guns> in the neighborhood (referring to the Tokyo section of Delmas 2). I considered that to be a rumor even though a good source
told me it was happening. Eventually it was confirmed that the gun distribution program was going on in Belair, Cite Soleil and even as far North as Gonaives. I suspected who was behind the program but it wasn't till I talked to gang members working as fixers for journalists that I was able to confirm a lot of my suspicions. I also talk to musicians from those neighborhoods who played in <ban a pieds> and <rara bands>. The whole process took a couple of years. To this day I don't have any actual proof but I'm not in any doubt as to who handed out those guns. You'll know soon enough yourself. As a musician, and as an American with a Haitian mother I have access to many different worlds. I use that access to better understand my environment."

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:36 am

Jaf the Canadian citizen of British Commonwealth wrote: [quote]the "experts" can only raise questions without going to the bottom of things. [/quote]
Sir Charles from U.K. Group responded:[quote]Yes let's get to bottom of things. Who has been distributing arms in poor districts of Port-au-Prince - since 2004 and before 2004....?[/quote]

Here they go again for another showdown!!!
Before it was money, now, it is gun!!

What the Haitian people have to do in all of this?
They are no gun industries in Haiti.
What can those poor Haitian people of Cite Soleil possibly use as foreign exchange for those guns?

Diamonds, oil, ohh wait…wait…I got it… KK, yes KK (note that KK does not stand for shit here, don't ask me what is it yet, just use your imagination).

Stay tuned…….t
he pointer finger continues.

Jaf frem! pa di ke map soufle dife a paske dife sa pran e biyen limin kwen la!!!

An nou rale ti chej ba nou and enjoy the show.


Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:49 pm

Well, kidnapping is a big business. And it is true that it started around 2004. Who is or are behind it?
We wouldn't know now. But, I can tell you one thing, Cite Soleil is one infested area where innocent civilians are getting killed and kidnapped on a daily basis. We shouldn't deny this fact. It would be a disservice to the truth!
These people get their money after any mugging or kidnapping. They use this money to buy ammunitions and more guns from members of the national Police, former Tonton Makout/Jandam and a lot of them from the Aristide's government.-
These are not sophisticated guns,but they can do the jobs. They are Uzi, Galil, M1, M16, 38 revolver and 45.
It is not easy for us to know the reality while we're a thousand miles away.
Personally, I think that there are some people who for some reasons are considered as untouchables. They are a big catalyst to this insecurity. I also think that there are thugs in Cite So
leil who are working for the former President. They were former Rat pa kaka, Chimeres etc.
We have so many people to blame. And believe me, we're gonna get to the bottom of this very soon.
There are some people who would hold on to Power by any means necessary.
Ala ti peyi gen Zenglendo se Ayiti!
Banm bay on lOt moun kOnn nan.
Mwen panse ke ni Minista ni Polis yo pap reyelman fE djOb yo. Kote Night vision yo?
Ou KOupe fE ak fE

Michel Nau_

Post by Michel Nau_ » Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:00 pm

Leonel wrote:[quote]These are not sophisticated guns,but they can do the jobs. They are Uzi, Galil, M1, M16, 38 revolver and 45. [/quote]
Yes indeed Leonel. A dead person is a dead person regardless if he was killed by an Uzi or a knife.
We need to stop the killing by passing and implementing tough gun laws.

Uzi, Galil, M16 etc., are weapons of war!!! And they should not be in civilians' hands, period.
An unauthorized civilian caught with a weapon of war should go straight to jail regardless if that person is from Cite Soleil or Petion-Ville.
The law is the law and should be applied across the board.

Leonel wrote:[quote]Personally, I think that there are some people who for some reasons are considered as untouchables. [/quote]
And what could be those reasons and who are those people???
No one should be above the law.

Gen youn peyi an South Asia ki gen lwa kont sivil kap mache ak zam an piblik.
Yo pase youn lwa ki di ke moun kap gen zam lakay yo pou defend fanmi yo.Yo kap gen youn tank pake nan garaj lakay yo si yo vle.

Min sepandan, yo pa fet pou soti avek zam nan zon'n piblik kankou legliz, lekol, sinema, restoran, match futbol etc.

Gen youn neg ki tap fe shelbe avek youn viye revolve nan poch li.
La police kinbe misiye. Yo fe'l peye $5,000.00 e bali 2 mwa prizon. La police remet misiye revolve a le yo lage li.

2 semem pa pase, yo kinbe misiye anko ak memm zam nan nan poch li.
Yo fe'l peye $5,000.00 e bali 2 mwa prizon e le yo lage li yo remet li zam li.
Yo kinbe misiye youn 3ziem fwa anko, la police fe memm bagay la, $5,000.00 e 2 mwa prizon e remet li zam nan.

an, misiye di la police ke :zam sa soti pou pete fiyel li e kase bank li. Li di la police ke yo met kinbe zam nan.

La police di li ke zam nan se pa'l li ye e ke sel bagay ke yo mande li se respekte la lwa. Kinbe zam w lakay w, pa soti nan zon'n piblik avek li.
Antou misiye depense $15,000.00 e pase 6 mwa prizon.

Le mwen te jen'n gazon, mwen te kom fe vites's nan machine e pase aba limiye rouj.
Mwen pa fe sa anko, non paske mwen pedi sansasiyon an, min pou rezon ekonomik.
La police tap plin deye'm ak tike ki koute'm anpil lajan.

Mwen fin'n pa remake ke le pinisiyon an gen youn vale monete'r la dan ni, moun konforme yo normalman.

Leonel wrote:[quote]I also think that there are thugs in Cite Soleil who are working for the former President. They were former Rat pa kaka, Chimeres etc. [/quote]
Not so fast boss papa! They may be former Rat pakaka, Chimeres etc,
but they are not necessarily working for the former President. That would be too easy to say, and a quick exit to a bias conclusion.
If you go at the bottom of this issue you would see that those guys are “Lords of War”.
They are independent contractors.
Just put the right money on the table and they will work for you, otherwise, they could double cross you (make you their victim in other words fe dekabess sou w).
Leonel ekri [quote]Ou KOupe fE ak fE[/quote]
Leonel, w pa jan eseiye koupe fe ak be? Try it!!
Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Rosa Park e elatriye did it, and it worked.
Sometimes, you don't fight violence with violence.

2 wrongs don't make it right! (only in math.!;)

Kinbe la fre'm!


Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:22 pm

Michel, mwen poko janm tande ke yo koupe fE ak bE???
Nan tout moun ou site yo, MLK etc, se te jis on chwa ke moun ki tap dirije yo fE. Yo pa ta ka kenbe nan menm degre opresyon an. Kidonk, yo chwazi sak pi bon chwa pou yo. Te chwazi pwogram MX lan pa tap nan avantaj on pakEt ladan yo...
Now, ou pa konprann kout gidon m nan. Bon, pi fO sa m ekri yo se sa ke mwen panse daprE analiz mwen. Analiz pam pa fEt nan enterE pEsonn. Mwen mete sam konnen atE paske bon sous mwen ki nan meli melo yo dEyE a ban mwen yo nan bon ti mamit.
KOm ou wE mwen touche tout eleman kap jwe on wOl nan kozman ensekirite ya. Mwen pap mete plis enfOmasyon sou fowOm nan. PetEt si nou jwenn nan Miami na pale pi plis sou tout sak pa sa ke nEg yo te fE e yap kontinye fE.
Gende fwa, li ta pi bon pou moun bay sous ou. Men li twO danjere pou moun yo ki le pli souvan fE pati de yon gwoup. On seri de moun ki se gwo pretanta nan yon asosiasyon.
Si w wE byen, mwen pa bla
me on sEl gwoup. Men, tout sa ki responsab yo. Paske ak ensekirite a, gen anpil nEgkap fE gwo lajan dEyE a.
SE konkou, nEg yo ap wE si ya mete on lot gouvEnman pwovizwa pou on dezan ankO pou yo bare Preval ak nenpOt moun ki reprezante Lavalas. LE yo ba w rezon an, wap konpwann pouki rezon. Sa pa vle di ke wap dakO non. Men, gen anpil zak ke nEg komEt lE yo te sou pouvwa...
Nap pale pi devan, paske si on moun gen on ti limyE se pou l pote l sou fowOm nan. DayE se sa tout moun ap tann. Kidonk, ma chEche on lOt jou ma bay on seri de detay plis sou zak malonEt ki fEt.
Sou mouvman ti zam ke mwen te di a. LE gen tank ak avyon an Night vision ak M60 etc. NenpOt lOt zam kem te site yo paka fE fO. FO w sonje Ayiti piti, li pap pran anpil pou yo rezoud pwoblEm ensekirite a.
Ak pasians, na jwenn tete foumi

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