Skin tones and other socio-political factors re: investments

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HenriD

Skin tones and other socio-political factors re: investments

Post by HenriD » Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:07 pm

Hello Jean,

Let's see if you have a sense of humor.

In reading these posts, reading the papers and listening to the politicians in the news, I have deduced the most important criteria for judging PromoCapital and the 70 people of PromoCapital, who between them have over 1120 years of education, and 2100 years of productive lives, overcoming major challenges throughout the world, are as follows:

1) The Skin Tones Factor
How light or dark we are, how authentically Dessalines

2) The Noble Social Class Factor
Are we rich or poor. Poor being a major badge of purity and nobility.

3) The Noble Profession Factor
Do we make money and profits or are we selflessly at the service of the community like the nuns and priests, and chaste to boot.

4) The Noble Overseas Factor
Those overseas are more noble than the locals

5) The Goupe des 184 F
actor.
Did we support the overthrow of Aristide in order to keep the massses down to better exploit them.

Now keep in mind that I know each and every one of these people very well. They are in fact more than business partners, they are friends, not to say family. So in light of that, and hoping to be of public service to those whose job it is to condemn, then judge us, rather than the other way around, I thought useful to do my own analysis, come clean and deliver the straight poop, about our good-guy vs bad-guy ratings and share with you below my reasonably scientific findings.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
1) The Skin Tone Factor
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Black = 35
Mulatto = 17
White = 17

Conclusion:
We are 50% Black, 25% Mulatto and 25% White
We pass the Skin Tones test with flying colors as 75% of us are all or part Dessalines, the rest of us are illegitimate second class citizens, worthy only of deport
ation back to where we came from. Not too bad.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
2) The Noble Social Class Factor
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

The Local Super Well Off (Therefore in Theory Super MRE, Grandmangeur, Putchists & Tilolit) = 14
The Overseas Super Well Off (Therefore in Theory Pure and Noble) = 8
The Local Well Off (Therefore in Theory Plain Vanilla MRE) = 11
The Overseas Well Off (Therefore in Theory Pure and Noble) = 20
The Mid Range Here and There (Therefore in Theory Undefinable) = 5
The Modest Here and There (Therefore in Theory Highly Noble) = 12

Conclusion:
Good Guys = 40
Bad Guys = 25
Undefined = 5
A decent average, even more so if one is willing to divide the Bad Guy and Undefined category by 2 based on the principle that as human beings they have some good and some evil in them.
That would make the score:

New Conclusion
Good Guys = 55
Bad Guys = 12.5
Undefined = 2.5


Not too bad. 55 to 15. A definite advantage in good guys.

PS: If you take your 11 plain vanilla MRE above and divide by 2 because they are so whimpy, powerless and "hors d'etat de nuire" then our score shots up to very respectable levels. A whopping 60.5 to 9.5 - Olympic Grade.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
3) The Noble Profession Factor
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Business People (Therefore in Theory Corrupt Crooks) = 26
Doctors (Therefore in Theory Noble) = 9
Non-Profit (Therefore in Theory Noble) = 7
Professionals (Therefore in Theory Noble) = 28

Conclusion:
Good Guys = 44
Bad Guys = 26

What do you know. I'm surprised I thought we had more corrupt crooks.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
4) The Noble Overseas Factor
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Overseas = 40
Local = 30

Conclusion:
The good guys win again. Damn
we're good.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
5) The Groupe des 184 Factor (The Biggie)
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Supporters of 184 = 8
Not Supporters of 184 = 61
Confused & Undecided (Therefore in Theory 100% Damnable) = 1

Conclusion:
Good Guys = 61
Bad Guys = 9

87% for the good guys, almost as good as Aristide's score in the last elections.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Overall conclusion:
The mission of this financial institution is to bring together a team of experienced, competent, Haitian and Haitian-American leaders with the practical skills, know-how, and resources to create an investment infrastructure with global horizons and limitless potential to contribute to the future welfare of our community in Haiti and in America, while at the same time providing socially responsive investors with equitable returns and benefits... An institution which promotes finan
cial independence, autonomy and security for Haitians and Haitian-Americans.

And that is who and what we are and what we hope to accomplish.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

And so there you have the findings of my research. I did it using an Excel Spreadsheet and could send you the pie charts, graphs etc... Unfortunately PHP Forums do not allow posting of spreadsheets. It must be a conspiracy.

I hope you do not respond because I do not have a sense of humor and cannot take as good as I give.

On a more serious note, keep in mind that levity is often the last recourse for dealing with the devastating. Like the doctors in MASH, or at your local hospital, we have to laugh at our mayhem lest it destroy our souls. Living as we do, in one of the most challenging environments on earth, for white and black, rich and poor, honest man and crook, is no picnic. Quite frankly to see how recklessly we attack anything that moves, much less something that is making the
right moves is downright self-destructive, and there perhaps is a lesson we can all learn together one day:

Regardless of how much we like to blame everyone, the failures are ours to keep and the successes ours to keep.

Self-build or self-destruct, What do we value most?

As Peter, Paul and Mary used to sing, "the answer my friend is blowing in the wind". What wind has been blowing over our little home? What kind of wind do we really want? Vengeance? More Blame and Shame? More Exclusion because of color, or social class, or profession, or location, or political conviction. Looks like a less than perfect plan to me.

We may just decide one day, as a group, to stop shooting the breeze and get down to the hard work of building. That is about walking the talk.

And here I present our challenge... Design a fund, its structure and management structure, do the legal and fiscal, design its oversight mechanisms, its investment objectives, make it a real thing, professional, socially
responsive, an asset to the community... and then let me know where we can send our check, because that is exactly what we want to do ourselves, and would love nothing more than to invest in such a fund.

Perhaps you can find much better and more knowledgeable and more experienced people and more perfect to do it with than the "simply human" we have found. They look pretty good to me. And that is the truth, not corporate politics or any other type of politics.

Until then, the manipulators and intimidators among us do their level best to suppress free and frank expression by shouting or shooting down the other. I hope one day all Haitians can look at all Haitians: black, brown or white, rich, medium rich, medium poor or poor, here or there, regardless of their profession, or political opinions, and say: "madi gra m pa pè ou, se moun ou ye", have a laugh and get to work together. It seems we ain't there yet.

Hang in there,

Henri

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:50 pm

Well, Brothers,

I had started this topic not to start any trouble, but trying to solve or bring some positive suggestions...

First, let me tell you, my question was a mirror for us Haitians to see and think of a better way to "GET ALONG".

Let me say this again, I believe that Henri didn't have to respond, but he did over and over. Jean alias JAF also had some good points as always. After thinking everything over, rationally, I think when investing in any business in the US, even though I am a Democrat, I don't really care that the business owner(s) is or are Republicans.

What do I mean?

Well, I think it is time for us (Haitians) to stop that mentality: "THEM vs US"... If you're a Lavalas, when Aristide is the leader, you have to chase the anti-Lavalas. Vice versa, when Latortue leads.

We should accept one's political choices and respect it. This is his human rights.

That mentality needs to stop
: "You're either with me or against me". I am sounding like GW, OUCH!

Personally, I do not care that so and so was against Aristide. As a matter of fact, I didn't even like the guy... although, I am against Coup d'Etat. Does that make me a bad person, or traitor of the nation? Well, that applies to anyone else. I believe that Henri has a business, not a political party. He is investing with people who can deliver. It doesn't matter if they are for bush or Kerry, Latortue or Aristide.

Mesye, fE atansyon, nap fE politik la rive trO lwen.

My question was: Is it safe to invest in Haiti?

This wasn't because of any particular group of people. I even referred to the Jewish or other communities investing in themselves.

A lot of you came with Haiti unstable, insecurity, etc, the reasons for fearing to invest in Haiti.

Now that we know about the problems, what are the solutions?

It would have been better if we were having a live forum. We could have had our points a
cross better.

I wish Guy came to my rescue as a moderator...

I would appreciate if there is no personal attack, we are learning from each other.

By the way, someone told me long time ago that the real friends of the masses do not come from the masses... Ex, Fidel, Che etc...

Something to think about, guys!

It's really late, I have to go and enjoy life ahead of all of you (6 hrs)

Take care my brothers and sisters,

*L'UNION FAIT LA FORCE*

leonel

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Post by admin » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:05 am

[quote]I wish Guy came to my rescue as a moderator...[/quote]
Leonel, I understand that when you started the thread regading the trust/mistrust factor when one considers investing in Haiti, you did not intend to provoke the full-blown discussion that has ensued, mainly in the exchanges between Henri Deschamps and Jafrikayiti. You seem alarmed, I am not in the least. I know those two gentlemen and I am convinced that they can debate vigourously, in mutual respect but with candor; that also, they will have serious points of disagreement, while they may also come in agreement on some points but not all; and that, in the process, we may all join and/or benefit from an enriched understanding resulting from the arguments and counter-arguments. Quite frankly, I think that this is great! I only wish that they did not give in to such a deliberate and exorbitant use of mutual quotes as to result in extraordinary long messages. [Henri started it. If I could charge him a dollar for each word...]

I have not chimed in lately in the discussion for three reasons: 1) I have been even busier than usual the last few days; 2) by the time I finish reading those two gentlemen, I have earned some serious "shut eye"; 3) when the discussion is really progressing well, knowledgeably, even forcefully but without marks of PERSONAL disrespect, then I believe that it is best that I retreat somewhat and let the chips fall where they may.

Jafrikayiti knows how much I value his input on this forum in which he has participated for the past five years (since March 1999! - see: http://haitiforever.com/bbs ) By the same token, I want to commend Henri very highly for his courage in participating in our "Ann Pale" forum. He likely is the first of Haiti's top economic elite to venture to do so. This takes personal courage, because this forum has always had an anti-elitist bent, for many excellent reasons in my personal opinion. However, I have not known Henri to exhibit a preponderance of the negative characteristics associated with the elites in Haiti (in truth, not even a small fraction of those characteristics). However, it is clear that one of Henri's virtues is that he would make all of his friends/colleagues/associates pass as angels... In spite of his protestations to the contrary, let's just say that Henri just has a decidedly optimistic nature. In any case, Henri has shown by his belated but welcome participation on this forum an openness of spirit, that is sadly all too absent among the compromised intellectual elites of our dear country.

One thing in which Henri is decidedly wrong [probably among others ;-) ] is in casting ominous and prejudiciable remarks about the value of our forum, based on how other internet forums fare in general. Henri, I will repeat once again that this forum has been in existence since March 1999, with some minor lapses and a couple of different formats. I
will not lie and say that it was easy. In fact, I have sacrificed much more than I probably should have ever had in the relentless pursuit of a fruitful dialogue among my compatriots. Call me C-R-A-Z-Y. It may be a virus working deeply in the recesses of my brain to my own detriment, but this very exchange between Henri and Jafrikayiti is a proof to me that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I may not live to see it, but it is there. Clearly, some feelings have been bruised, and the differing points of view are still entranched, but at least we have the beginning of a genuine dialogue, without zam fann fwa. So, Henri, lick your wounds if you have to, but be proud of your participation in a successful and dignified forum.

After all, what do we all want for Haiti? No more violence. No more coups d'etat. NO MORE FINANCING OF COUPS D'ETAT FROM INTERNAL OR EXTERNAL SOURCES. Well, not so fast! I know damn well that we do not all want an end to coups d'etat, as many of our brothers and sisters work tirelessly for those sad and frequent occurrences in our History. But perhaps, with true dialogue, we will ALL come to see that in the end coups d'etat serve no class well. Temporary fortunes may be made, but in the long term we are all the poorer.

I would like to conclude with these words from Frederick Douglass, delivered 111 years ago.

[quote]there she is, torn and rent by revolutions, by clamorous factions and anarchies; floundering her life away from years in a labyrinth of social misery. Every little while we find her convulsed by civil war, engaged in the terrible work of death; frantically shedding her own blood and driving her best mental material into hopeless exile... The explanation is this: Haiti is a country of revolutions. They break forth without warning and without excuse. The town [Port-au-Prince] may stand at sunset and vanish in the morning. Splendid ruins, once the homes of the rich, meet us on every street. Great warehouses, once the property of successful merchants, confront us with their marred and shattered walls in different parts of the city. When we ask: "Whence these mournful ruins?" and "Why are they not rebuilt?" we are answered by one word--a word of agony and dismal terror, a word which goes to the core of all this people's woes; It is, "revolution!" Such are the uncertainties and insecurities caused by this revolutionary madness of a part of her people, that no insurance company will insure property at a rate which the holder can afford to pay. Under such a condition of things a tranquil mind is impossible. There is ever a chronic, feverish looking forward to possible disasters. Incendiary fires; fires set on foot as a proof of dissatisfaction with the government; fires for personal revenge, and fires to promote revolution are of startling frequency. This is sometimes thought to be due to the character of the race. Far from it. The common
people of Haiti are peaceful enough.

They have no taste for revolutions. The fault is not with the ignorant many, but with the educated and ambitious few. Too proud to work, and not disposed to go into commerce, they make politics a business of their country. Governed neither by love nor mercy for their country, they care not into what depths she may be plunged. No president, however virtuous, wise and patriotic, ever suits them when they themselves happen to be out of power.

I wish I could say that these are the only conspirators against the peace of Haiti, but I cannot. They have allies in the United States... It so happens that we have men in this country who, to accomplish their personal and selfish ends, will fan the flame of passion between the factions in Haiti and will otherwise assist in setting revolutions afoot. To their shame be it spoken, men in high American quarters have boasted to me of their ability to start a revolution in Haiti at pleasure. They have only to raise sufficient money, they say, with which to arm and otherwise equip the malcontents, of either faction, to effect their object... It gives them a market for their worthless wares. Others of a speculative turn of mind and who have money to lend at high rates of interest are glad to conspire with revolutionary chiefs of either faction, to enable them to start a bloody insurrection. To them, the welfare of Haiti is nothing; the shedding of human blood is nothing; the success of free institutions is nothing, and the ruin of neighboring country is nothing. They are sharks, pirates and Shylocks, greedy for money, no matter at what cost of life and misery to mankind...

Manifestly, this revolutionary spirit of Haiti is her curse, her crime, her greatest calamity and the explanation of the limited condition of her civilization.[/quote]

Clearly, Douglass is not using "revolution" and "revolutionary spirit" in the noble sense to which we are accustomed. He is manifestly speaking of coups d'etat, which have repeatedly torn the social fabric of our nation. Such conditions do not foster an atmosphere of trust among Haitians. Henri speaks tirelessly of working on solutions to Haiti's problems, that's very beautiful... but he should consider that a big dosage of Vitamin C will not likely rid a body of cancer. Granted, we should all work on the solutions... but if we cannot agree on what the problems are, how can we ensure that the "solutions" will fit the problems?

On this note, let's continue the dialogue.

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:30 am

Thank you, Rescuer!

Based on what I know about HenriD, he is very moderate and out of the ordinary Haitian businessman.

I would like others to come forward also: Apaid, Bigio etc. Presenting their opinions on the subject...

It doesn't mean that I don't want Henri anymore.

Henri you are welcome anytime, I really enjoy your posts...

FORMIDABLE!

Let's go on!

N.B. That is what I like about Guy. He can read my mind...

HenriD

Looks like you missed the PS

Post by HenriD » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:52 am

Hi Guy,

I'll get back to this later because today is one of those days, but as concerns your message:

<quote>

One thing in which Henri is decidedly wrong [probably among others ;-) ] is in casting ominous and prejudiciable remarks about the value of our forum, based on how other internet forums fare in general. Henri, I will repeat once again that this forum has been in existence since March 1999, with some minor lapses and a couple of different formats. I will not lie and say that it was easy. In fact, I have sacrificed much more than I probably should have ever had in the relentless pursuit of a fruitful dialogue among my compatriots. Call me C-R-A-Z-Y. It may be a virus working deeply in the recesses of my brain to my own detriment, but this very exchange between Henri and Jafrikayiti is a proof to me that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I may not live to see it, but it is there.
Clearly, some feelings have been bruised, and the differing points of view are still entranched, but at least we have the beginning of a genuine dialogue, without zam fann fwa. So, Henri, lick your wounds if you have to, but be proud of your participation in a successful and dignified forum.

<unquote>

I think you must not have seen the PS in one of my postings above because I do not see where you are coming from. The quote below at the bottom of one of my postings a few messages before your message.

<quote>

PS: I wrote an article many years back about internet forums which is at:
http://www.i-port.net/sd-in-hd/chronicle.htm
Thank God Guy runs such a clean shop :-)

<unquote>

Hang in there,

Henri

HenriD

Post by HenriD » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:40 pm

Hi Guy,

In response to your quotes from below, here is what I would respond.

<Guy's Quote>

However, it is clear that one of Henri's virtues is that he would make all of his friends/colleagues/associates pass as angels... In spite of his protestations to the contrary, let's just say that Henri just has a decidedly optimistic nature. In any case, Henri has shown by his belated but welcome participation on this forum an openness of spirit, that is sadly all too absent among the compromised intellectual elites of our dear country.

<Guy's Unquote>

Guy, in my description of the people which were named that I know personally, I do not see how my description of them is angelic or designed to angelicize. I think you may want to reread that posting. I am hoping that it is not because I fail to "diabolicize" that means in your mind that I "angelicize". If they have been diabolicized by others as a class or
as individuals I consider it both grossly unfair and dangerous to them. It is also destructive to build things based on false premises because they fall apart under their own weight. I believe in neither approach. People are people. There are very few, if any, angels or devils in my world. That kind of classification is reserved for my children who alternate between both poles very regularly.

In any case the two people I spoke of in ringing positive tones are Gilbert Bigio and Hans Tippenhauer, both people for which I have great respect, as do 95% of the people who spend 30 minutes with them. I have spent a lot more than 30 minutes with both and I can attest to their character and have. Of course each person is free to discount that if it does not fit their own needs. The only need of mine it fills is a need for something as close to the truth as I can make it. I also spoke in no uncertain terms of my lack of Respect for Ronald Georges, and my consternation and quite heated arguments with another person on that list in the past. I am not going to dump on those folks in public because although one very clearly deserves it, the other I am not so sure, and in both cases what's the point in doing so. They are not a group, they are individuals, each with their personal cultures.

So where are the angels and where are the devils, in my opinion nowhere in my text and for sure nowhere in my mind.

You also say "Henri just has a decidedly optimistic nature". Does that mean that what I say should be viewed through that filter? For the record, I am very far from having an optimistic nature. My wife can tell you scores on that one, as can my children and anyone else who knows me. I fight every day throughout the day to reach for optimism because that is what is useful in the world. That is what makes a contribution. It is, in this environment, quite the struggle I assure you.

<Guy's Quote>

Henri speaks tirelessly of working on solutions to Haiti's problems, that's very beautiful... but he should consider that a big dosage of Vitamin C will not likely rid a body of cancer. Granted, we should all work on the solutions... but if we cannot agree on what the problems are, how can we ensure that the "solutions" will fit the problems?

<Guy's Unquote>

Guy, that is where you and I and many other people disagree very fundamentally. Let me tell you what I believe:

80% of the time, you do not need to know what caused a problem to fix it. You can cut to the chase and see very simply what needs to be done, how, and then get to trying to do it. Example: If I see there is no hope, I do not need to know why there is no hope, I can try to create hope, and there are ways to create hope without knowing why there was no hope. If I see there is poverty, I do not need to know why there is poverty, I can try to create wealth, and there are ways to create wealth without knowing why there was no wealth. If I see a road is needed, I do not need to know why there is no road, I can build a road, and there are ways to create roads without knowing why there was no road. If I see there is darkness, I do not need to know why the darkness exists, I can try to create light, and as we all know there are ways to create light without knowing why there was no light. I guess in business because we have to be we are more practical about many of those things. The reason a thing exists has value only in as much as it is of use to the design of the solution. But guess what, in the vast majority of cases, solutions can be designed in which the "why is it wrong" is less than 10% of the equation. In a design meeting anyone obsessed by why it is wrong often contributes little. Sometimes people point out what is wrong because they do not see how to fix it. Obviously learning to fix it is a better investment in one's time than repeating endlessly what is wrong.

In the world of ideas and intellect there is more analysis, in the world of action there is more action. Both have value but I lean towards action.

In Haiti's case, my personal sentiment is that we are mostly talk and little action. And often enough both our talk and our actions are destructive rather than constructive. We like to point out, lay blame, attempt to shame people into action, or disappearing through fear, and often simply to give ourselves the impression we are better somehow. Often we come up with hairbrained schemes with no capacity to execute. Any corner psychologist will show you indisputable scientific fact that that is a loser-victim mentality destined for failure in all things big and small. The way to combat it is by choosing better ways and having the individual and group discipline to walk the talk. What can I tell you, that's life. No labels, no shortcuts just a pile of hard work.

When you were making this forum, how much time did you spend mulling over the "why a forum like this did not exist" when compared to the time you spent creating it and fixing it every step of the way.

<Guy's Quote>

On this note, let's continue the dialogue.

<Guy's Unquote>

As you of all people know, I was not being disingenuous or sly when I said:
1) I do not know anything about politics
2) I do not like politics and politicians
3) I have little if anything to contribute to political discussions
4) I do like leaders and statesmen
5) I do know what I am talking about in business and banking

You also mentioned at some point for me to lick my wounds. I was not aware I was wounded. Perhaps I am. In any case, with the amount of name calling which exists in all sectors of our society, I think I would be a serious whimp, if anything said here or anywhere got me down and licking my wounds. Everyone everywhere knows all white Haitian bourgeois are blood-sucking MRE's, putschists, scum, crooks and assassins. That we are the reason the country is in the shape it is. I have to run off now and prepare our board meeting entitled "How can we oppress the people? Ten steps to a happy tomorrow" :-) Any ideas?

Beyond that five things:

1) I appreciate a great deal the very kind words of support and encouragement expressed to me and PromoCapital in this forum. It is quite encoraging in the big and small things.

2) If the discussion is politics, class, color or otherwise, I have little if anything to contribute and see no way to defend myself or others if the need to retain preconceptions outweighs the need for facts and solutions, and most especially if the object of the game becomes "Kill the Haitians". My father was born in Saint-Marc, My Mother in Port-au-Prince, me in Turgeau, my passport is marked "paspo". With that passport, that would make me a primo target. My kids still need me.

3) If anyone wants to talk about work, production, banking and investment, or for that matter just plain life, I am game. And as you see I love to hear myself talk.

4) I do not really know why Haiti has all these problems, I do not really know how to fix them, I do know how to work on a few, none of those are political in nature, they are economic in nature, they are specific and practical and not economic philosophy.

5) I really do think we are better served by forgetting the past, especially a past as traumatic, and forging a brighter future though hard thinking, a minimum of hard talking but primarily hard work.

If it works in people's lives, why would it not work for a country?

If it works in other countries, why would it not work in ours?

Are we that weird that we cannot do it? I don't think so.

We're a lot of fun when we put down the tongues and the guns, our two national weapons of late.

If people cannot simply get over it, they will never get there. If they can, they will.

That is simply human nature, it works that way with friends, wives, children, associates, enemies.

There is very simply no other way to move on than to move on. Whatever baggage we keep dragging behind us because we are attached to our baggage is a canonball as sure and heavy as the canonball the slaves wore on their ankles. As we all know liberation is in the mind.

What does that mean for a responsible indiviudal? I have a couple of hundred of psychology books I have actually read, and even highlighted and annotated, in my bookcase, that all tell me that it often begins by how we describe ourselves and others. I don't make the rules, chief, life does. If we describe ourselves as we have in the past, we will stay as we have in the past. If we describe ourselves differently and we expect to act differently in the future and we support ourselves, then we will.

Everyone here knows that so I will go back to exploiting the people now.

Hang in there,

Henri

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Post by admin » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:24 pm


[quote]Guy: However, it is clear that one of Henri's virtues is that he would make all of his friends/colleagues/associates pass as angels.

Henri: Guy, in my description of the people which were named that I know personally, I do not see how my description of them is angelic or designed to angelicize. I think you may want to reread that posting. I am hoping that it is not because I fail to "diabolicize" that means in your mind that I "angelicize". If they have been diabolicized by others as a class or as individuals I consider it both grossly unfair and dangerous to them.[/quote]
Henri, you are among people here who do respect you. Try to relax one bit. I was merely satirizing the way you methodically went about to prove that all these people you knew could not possibly have been involved in directly supporting a coup d'etat in Haiti. That's what I meant when I used the term "angels". I never expected you to diabolicize anybody. I. too, have a track record on respecting people's individuality. I don't really need a lesson in that respect. Search my whole site. I have written lots of stuff. Show me where I have diabolicized anyone in particular. I do condemn people on occasion for their specific and demonstrably harmful actions as individuals. I have NEVER "lynched" anyone, based on the fact that they were white, rich, conservative, GNB, "184", or Republican. [ And God knows I cannot stand the Republican Party or any party in Haiti advocating coups d'etat ! ! ]

[quote]It is also destructive to build things based on false premises because they fall apart under their own weight. I believe in neither approach. People are people. There are very few, if any, angels or devils in my world.[/quote]
"AMEN!," but you are truly preaching to the choir here.

[quote]In any case the two people I spoke of in ringing positive
tones are Gilbert Bigio and Hans Tippenhauer, both people for which I have great respect, as do 95% of the people who spend 30 minutes with them.[/quote]
Henri, my personal impression of Gilbert Bigio is that he is a truly fine compatriot and extremely intelligent human being. But I am not going to get into personalities here, as this conversation is taking a turn that I did not intend to engage in, not even for a moment.

Again, you took my "angels" remark a lot more seriously than I expected. I was simply poking fun at your lawyering technique (counting down from 10 to 0, in a spurious manner, half-way serious and half-way humorous). You know what? Forget that I said that you made "angels" of them all. In fact, you truly made "devils" of each and every one of them. Oh why, Henri??

[quote]There are very few, if any, angels or devils in my world. That kind of classification is reserved for my children who alternate between both poles very regularly.[/quote]
I see... However, do not forget Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. It could be that your children are perfectly stable, not alternating at all, but that you are. In your own perception, they are the ones alternating between both poles, while you are solidly anchored. Hmm...

[quote]You also say "Henri just has a decidedly optimistic nature". Does that mean that what I say should be viewed through that filter? For the record, I am very far from having an optimistic nature. My wife can tell you scores on that one, as can my children and anyone else who knows me.[/quote]
I was just teasing you, friend. You are the most pessimistic person I have ever met.

[quote]If the discussion is politics, class, color or otherwise, I have little if anything to contribute and see no way to defend myself or others if the need to retain preconceptions outweighs the need for facts and solutions, and most especially if the object of the gam
e becomes "Kill the Haitians". My father was born in Saint-Marc, My Mother in Port-au-Prince, me in Turgeau, my passport is marked "paspo". With that passport, that would make me a primo target. My kids still need me.[/quote]
Henri, you are supposed to make people laugh with your sense of humor, not make them cry. The phrase { if the object of the game becomes "Kill the Haitians" } really does not belong in this discussion at all. And it's not just your family that still needs you Henri, but our whole community.

There is nothing that I have written, EVER, or anything else written here on this forum to give rise to such dark thoughts. Indeed, forget everything I said about your being "an optimist".

[quote]Everyone everywhere knows all white Haitian bourgeois are blood-sucking MRE's, putschists, scum, crooks and assassins. That we are the reason the country is in the shape it is. I have to run off now and prepare our board meeting entitled "How can we oppress th
e people? Ten steps to a happy tomorrow" :-) [/quote]
Henri, you are scaring me. We, black folks, don't have nor enjoy that sense of humor. Brrrrrrr............

Seriously, Henri, it was a similar remark that you had made earlier in a previous response to Jafrikayiti that prompted me to defend the seriousness and integrity of this forum. I don't think it is necessary for me to retrieve the exact quote, but when you say things like what you just said above, someone could well interpret it like that is what we do on this forum. Sure, there have been many condemnations of the bourgeois class in Haiti, but I do not personally recall any statement vilifying all white Haitian bourgeois. I could have missed it, but again, I DO have a long track record on this forum and on this site, moderating clearly anti-social tendencies.

[quote]Everyone here knows that so I will go back to exploiting the people now.[/quote]
More of the same, Henri. Your sense of humor is baffling at times. We have ALL engaged in exploitative behaviors during our life, whether we were/are aware of it or not. But the object of the game is not to make fun of it, but to stop exploiting the people and to lift them up.

I know you are doing your part..but, wow, you do make me appreciate how very difficult it must be to keep a healthy sense of humor in the country. I hope you hang in there, pal.

Guy

HenriD

Post by HenriD » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:16 am

Hey Guy,

You da man :-) After my own diabolical sense of humor, yours is the one I like the best :::wink:::

Henri

HenriD

Post by HenriD » Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:51 pm

Hi Padel,

A friend of mine says I am often too cryptic in my writing, I write like I speak and writing requires precision because people do not see your face. Let me clarify that by saying instead of:

"80% of the time, you do not need to know what caused a problem to fix it."

rephrased in the precise context of what we were discussing:

"80% of the time, you do not need to know the sociological reason why a problem exists to bring a solution to bear."

To be more precise for example: You do not need to know the sociological reason there is no road to build a road and in my opinion the list goes on.

If you are talking mechanical-engineering obviously you need to see why a part broke so the fix improves the part. I am not talking about NASA and moon landings.

As we all know, People are different than steel. I don't know what your experience is, but mine is that once the basics are understood, there is
no useful purpose derived by endless definitions of the problem, our time and efforts are better served by designing and mostly implementing the solution. The books I have read on the matter and the workshops I have attended put efficient time distribution of behavior in the following ballparks:

1) defining the objective 10%
2) problem and constraint definition at 10%
2) brainstorming the solution 5%
3) refining the solution 10%
4) drawing up the plan 30%
5) implementation 35%

and slight variations of the time distributions above.

How much time as a rule do we spend on step 2 versus step one and those which follow step 2. I may be mistaken, but it seems to me we spend somewhere close to 80-95% of our time in step 2. Do we really ever design step one except in the most abstract and broad strokes? From what my business and personal education has thought me: a properly phrased objective with a decent hope of success is phrased using the following formula.

Who or What (
The responsible party)
Does How Much (A measurable number)
Of What (The objective)
By When (The deadline or ballpark target)

Using that approach means that instead of saying:

There is not enough access to education in Haiti, it's the fault of this one or that one.

we would say:

Our group will focus on the promotion of the construction of 25 more schools in each commune and accomplish that objective by January 2006

When approached from that perspective a plan can be devised that has some hope of success because
1) we have agreed on the objective,
2) the strategies and tactics to get there flow out of us pretty naturally

Do we really need to know the reasons why we have no electricity to provide more? I don't think so. I think we can see the need, see the constraints, some of which are no doubt people related, then see how for each constraint come up with a solution.

Every business person has an approach, the fact has however been somewhat scie
ntifically demonstrated in books on people, be they business books or other books, that more is to be gained by aiming for the solution, then seeing the constraints, not vice-versa. We are attempting the fix backwards by obsessing about the problem.

You have heard the phrase "ready, aim, fire".

Much has been made that in the fast paced world we live in the more useful and accurate method is "ready, fire, aim".

Business and interpersonal models as well as even Missile defense systems are now in fact based on that philosophy of fire then hone in. Why?

The old world allowed the ready, aim, fire approach. Because everything and everyone moved so slowly.

Because the world is too complex to be programmed using a few simple approaches and mental constructs, it is very often better to

1) Ready: define the objective, define the constraints, brainstorm the solution, refine the solution,

2) Fire: make the plan and implement it, part of implementation being:

3)
Aim: keeping the plan on track or modifying as new constraints are identified

Is there really any doubt we are more oriented to discussion than action, more oriented to seeing problems than solutions, more of a nature to rehash than to get the picture and move forward.

I guess we have many different business and personal philosophies and that's perfectly fine.

I do stand by that approach and 80% of the wording used to express it as it does seem to produce more results in my personal experience. Like I said, I am not a mechanical engineer.

We can keep honing in on the details of my post or just get the big picture.

If someone needs to know every reason everything goes wrong, that is indeed their prerogative, as I consider it mine to look at things from more of a "what needs to be done and how are we going to do it" perspective.

Much of the dialog is semantical because I would imagine we both understand what we mean and most likely agree even if we express it differen
tly. Or maybe not and that is all right too.

If you want more clarification let me know as I have no problem at all trying to clarify meaning, if the meaning is not adequately expressed.

Thanks,

Henri

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