Restitution of the indemnity?

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Gifrants

Restitution of the indemnity?

Post by Gifrants » Thu May 22, 2003 8:34 am

My opinion on the restitution of the indemnity paid by President Boyer, on behalf of the Haitian people, to the French Government for the recognition of the Independence of Haiti.

Let me go straight to the point. Only a coward leading a bunch of cowards will pay any indemnity for winning a war.

Only an imbecile leading a bunch of imbeciles will demand the restitution of such an indemnity, with such an informal, inadequate and ill-prepared manner.

I hail highly my ancestor Henri Christophe. He was a good man, a good and brave soldier. If Boyer were such a good man, a good and brave soldier, the French would have not dared ask for any indemnity. There was a big difference, and there is a big difference, between dealing with the former white master and leaking his ass. Even today, most Haitian politicians and in general, the Haitian intelligensia, are afraid to deal with the Whites, afraid to deal wit
h the Western World, afraid to deal with the North.

We have been called and we are among the Third World. This categorization is racist, divisive, inhumane and uncivilized. Those who intend to protect and defend their political hegemony won't stop unless we stop them. AND PLEASE, THESE ARE NOT THE WORDS OF A TERRORIST. No man, on this planet, who is different from a White man, is the child of a lesser God. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE EQUALLY FREE AND HAPPY. When on a global level, my misery is maintaining the wealth of somebody else, the application of the universal and divine laws of justice is imperative. The Western World needs us more than we think. Of course, everything will be done in order to prevent a common front to face them. The G7 meet regularly, whatever their differences and concerns. They have to because they have a common agenda. We, the poor and the non-whites, have more than one reason to fight and stand up together.

It is totally wrong, inappropriate, useless and stupid especia
lly from the Lavalas Government to summon the French Government about this restitution. Once again, Aristide proves that he is an imbecile. The French Government, through his French Ambassador, was in direct conflict with the State Department and the White House for SAVING ARISTIDE'S SKIN, BECAUSE JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE WAS GOING TO BE BURNED ALIVE, OR EVENTUALLY TERMINATED. More than that, the investment of the French in Haiti during his presidency could have weighed a lot in the way the Americans want to IMPOSE THEIR WILL on us. He should have been focusing on working with those who are willing to help, and those who WERE ON HIS SIDE. Not only now, his government does not have the support of the French, the Americans have much more leverage than before to influence Haitian politics through that puppet opposition.

Can we eventually ask for a restitution of this indemnity? Possibly, but I would be very careful to make sure I succeed, and not make a fool of myself. The example of the Jews suing right a
nd left, and being successful at it somehow, is not a good one. I would stay out of this. But, we should remember that the French went to Boyer, not to Christophe. Why? Also, we must not forget that we did have the choice NOT TO PAY ANYTHING AT ALL--WE HAVE ALREADY CLAIMED VICTORY, AND THE MASTERS WERE NO LONGER ON OUR LAND. ALL WE HAD TO DO WAS TO MAKE SURE THEY DIED IF THEY HAD COME BACK... AS MASTERS AND RULERS OF OUR LAND, COUNTRY AND LIVES.

Pitit Ginen

Post by Pitit Ginen » Fri May 23, 2003 4:47 pm

Gifrants,

For personal reasons, I had decided to silence myself about politics in general, and in my own country (Haiti), in particular. For some time now, you have been animating the forum. And I haven't been able to keep my silence reading your various, one more interesting than the other, reflexions. I have decided to break up my silence and launched myself into that quest for enlightenment and exchange of ideas with you.

The opportunism, brainwashing, selfishness, blindness and the " house slave mind set " of the Third World elites (including their representatives, the governments), and that of Haiti, particularly, make me so sick that I thought that being silent, while living up to one's conviction, desire for change, as well as giving one's personal participation in one's community, would be the best way to go. However, your reflexions force me, and my readings also force me to realize that the ideological field cannot
be left empty. No matter what, whether we're read by many or a few, we have to keep a presence in the reflexion arena. That being said. Here I am. Nou retounen nan Ann Pale pou nou brase lide.

First of all and in a friendly manner, let me suggest to you that terms like " imbeciles " and " leaking his ass " don't invite to a sane debate. Your points of views have been very effective and straight to the point so far, I suggest that you don't deviate from this path with expressions that might be offensive to some readers. We can still express our views with conviction and strength, but without any obscenity added. By the way, I hold responsible our dear friend Guy who didn't censor such expressions. The new forum format was supposed to prevent such deviations from happening.

Now, let's drift into the subject. From your analysis, the indemnity payment by Boyer would be an act of cowardice and idiocy. Right. But, this doesn't seem enough to explain this decision. There seems to be
some image buying involved. Which image cannot be comprehended outside the brainwashing that the pre-Independence elite (mulattos and blacks alike) has undergone. This money could have been used for social programs and other plans of that nature, but that was not the objective of the leaders. Even up to this very present day, we can clearly see that haitian leaders don't put forward the interest of their nation. Their personal image is much more important that any other thing. That same image phenomenon can help us understand why opportunism has penetrated every strata of our society. The great majority of our brothers and sisters, specially the elite, still doesn't understand that " National Pride " matters more than one's personal financial situation. I was completely amazed at reading the sacrifice the old japanese generation has endured and accepted in order to accomplish what is rightly called the " Japanese Miracle ". Will Haitians, one day, see the importance and urgency of living humbly fo
r the greatness of their nation? After nearly 200 years, our hearts are broken into pieces, but we still hope (...)

That race for “ image ”wrongly associated with “Dignity” and “Pride” is more than obvious among the black people in general. This is a direct consequence of alienation caused by colonization. Most black people don't live for themselves, but for the outside world. That awkward mindset keeps us from being productive. How can someone explain that Mobutu of Zaire (now The Democratic of the Congo) spent millions of dollars to build a magnificent mosque while in his country you can't count one single respectable university, let alone a scientific laboratory? How? And how do we explain that Aristide buy an splendid palace for his prime minister while we lack every thing in this country? There is no real discrepancy between Boyer' s decision and these examples.

We shouldn't be offended by the term " Third World ". On the contrary, we should use it to our advantage. By th
at same name, the slaves' traders have given us a weapon that we haven't been able to use effectively. That term should remind us of a genocide that our Ancaster suffered at the hands of some cynical, barbarian people (who today call themselves civilized). That code was supposed to be a reference for " Unity ". That unity would allow us to confront the imperialistic and devilish system. Not to go to war with them. But that "Unity" would give us the opportunity to speak a common language, and fight for our interest as a solid block just like they happen to control the world through their various financial, economic and so-called humanitarian organizations. We haven't been able to reach that "Unity" because we are nowhere near the level of consciousness of the asian people for instance. The day that we'll reach that level, the imperialistic system will crumble on its own. And that will happen because of the exact fact that you cited. The fact that they can't function without us. Would it be sol
ely for raw material. Just like we need them also. But will we ever get to this point in the Third World? Only History will testify (...)

The term racism that is often applied to the imperialist system is one that needs to be defined or redefined. I will elaborate on that point and others from your analysis in my next message.

Pitit Ginen.

Gifrants

To Pitit Ginen

Post by Gifrants » Fri May 23, 2003 11:25 pm

It's not very common for anybody to please everybody at the same time.

The easiness with which Haitian intellectuals will brag about the superficiality of their credentials, since the Haitian society has never benefited of their sense of professionlism and civic responsibility, has always amazed me. I purely and simply find it repulsive.

As far as I am concerned, an imbecille is just an imbecile as long as his actions prove him to be an imbecile. I never gave a damn about the President speaking 8 languages fluently,and I will always care less. In fact, considering the harsch conditions in which the Haitian people are living right now, any smart person would rather see an illiterate President with a lot of integrity, who can just have the job done.

The real indecency does no reside in the choice of words one uses as long as those words reflect true facts. Of course, being an intellectual widens the spectrum of po
ssibilities of expressing one's mind. Well-mannered and sophisticated minds intend to glow enough to show the ugliness of bluntness just to discount the ugliness of the truth.

You see, the American people are proud to celebrate Thanksgiving Day. The Native Americans lament on Thanksgiving Day.

The pilgrims came to America because they wanted freedom of religion. A whole race has been exterminated, but God bless America.

My ancestors have endured the atrocities of slavery. We are still struggling for freedom and equality. Those who are denying us such rights are civilized, but we are not. In this case, I'm glad I'm not.

When someone leaks the white master's ass, I will say it exactly the way it is. I'm who I've become as much as I've become who I'm, truthful enough not to be indecent.

P.S. The true character of a puritan does not reflect in his or her words. Just keeping any secret dark thoughts iinside does not relieve the guilt of being an hypocrit.

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Post by admin » Sat May 24, 2003 4:18 am

[quote]By the way, I hold responsible our dear friend Guy who didn't censor such expressions. The new forum format was supposed to prevent such deviations from happening.[/quote]

Dear Pitit Ginen,

Aside from standard, run of the mill, obscenities which will (or may not be!) automatically screened out, we will not get in the business of censoring bad language within a post. When a speaker uses foul language to make his point, it not only reflects solely on his character, but it is a telltale sign of the weakness of the argumentation. While we will not censor words in the detailed manner that you suggest (we have learned a thing or two about futility along the way), we will in fact peremptorily censor entire notes, when we judge such notes to be on the whole inacceptable and irretrievably prejudicial to the forum's interest. Some bad will see the light for the greater good. Our judgment in this
respect will necessarily be subjective and in many ways personal, but it will be based on experience, on knowledge of the individuals involved, and on our undying faith in the capacity of Haitian Man to redeem himself.

When we DO make such editorial decisions as to censor a message (in whole) or to banish a member from the forum for badly disruptive behavior... so it will be done. The old futility of pleading for good behavior will not be revisited. Our primary objective at this point is to build an active forum in the spirit of stimulating thought/action processes that are beneficial to the community. We cannot do so without PARTICIPATION. It would be fruitless for us to be quick on censoring a productive member, when most other capable individuals and formerly active forum participants have chosen to stay by the sidelines. If not for a careful evaluation of our response, such actions could well become the kiss of death for the forum. Yet, we are glad to see others jump in and ask for restraint
in the use of language and a greater sense of responsibility.

Yon sèl dwèt pa manje kalalou!

We hope that what we have written above is very clear to all. It should in no way bring misguided comfort to previous abusers of the forum. We have survived horrendous difficulties to become even stronger. Only silence can defeat us now.

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