Roger Milceus responds to Sunday Independent

Post Reply
Isabelle_

Roger Milceus responds to Sunday Independent

Post by Isabelle_ » Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:13 pm

Another outstanding answer of Roger "Rudolph" Milceus to a South African journalist, concerning an article published on June 13, 2004 in the "Sunday Independent", read on:


_______________________________________
From: rudolph [mailto:rl75218@laposte.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:46 PM

Dear Ms. Isaacson,

It is with great interest, but also shock and disbelief, that I read your interview with Mr. Jean-Bertrand Aristide (please note the correct first name) in the June 13 edition of the Sunday Independent.

As a Haitian citizen and a former supporter of Lavalas, Aristide's political party, it pains me to see that a man who has betrayed the aspirations of the vast majority of Haitians - and especially the poor - could obtain such a platform to continue fooling the South African people, and indeed the world. When we voted for Mr. Ari
stide, as the surprise candidate for the FNCD party on December 16, 1990, we voted for the man whom we thought would make a clean break from a sordid past of 186 years of political, social and economic misery. We were fed up with dictatorship, corruption, human rights abuses, and other ills that afflicted our beloved country. We were firmly convinced that the FNCD's platform of "Justice, Transparency, Participation" would finally deliver results for the poor, who represent the vast majority of the population. Alas, that was not meant to be, and many of us rue the day when we placed our trust in this neo-Duvalier dictator who only refined and amplified the tyrannical practices of François Duvalier aka Papa Doc, so well documented throughout history.

It is therefore not surprising that Aristide, knowing that few in SA are aware of modern Haitian history, engages in historic revisionism and outright lies that will not be contested by your readership. It is unfortunate that you did not see fit to challe
nge some of his most egregious assertions; all of them are actually, but in certain cases, he really surpassed himself. So allow me to provide another assessment of Mr. Aristide's presidency:

Political Developments
======================

Mr. Aristide's presidencies were marked by a progressive slide towards totalitarianism. While paying lip service to more participation by the citizenry, Mr. Aristide proceeded to increase his grip on power through constant violations of the constitution:

+ Political parties were constrained in their ability to organize meetings and marches against the policies of the government. While I have nothing but contempt for many of these politicians, I believe that they have the right to exercise their political rights, which were thwarted at almost every turn by Aristide's police and his paramilitary groups, the chimeres. More on that later.

+ Trade unions and many NGOs were relentlessly harassed by the Aristide administration, which actually side
d with big business against the interests of farm workers in several cases: the free-trade zone in Ouanaminthe and the orange peel plantations in the North (which sell to such outfits as Cointreau of France.) Workers' rights were systematically trampled, as Batay Ouvriye (a local union) and the Haiti Support Group reported time and again.

+ Freedom of the press took a huge hit under the Aristide presidency. Contrary to his assertion in your article, his most recent presidency was marked by systematic harassment of journalists and even by the ignoble assassination of one radio journalist, Brignol Lindor, in the town of Petit-Goave. You, of all people, should be sensitive to this type of violation as it affects your colleagues in Haiti. There is a reason why Aristide was identified by the Reporters without Borders association as a Predator of the Press for two years running. See:
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=3754


+ He politic
ized the Haitian National Police, to such a point that the 14th class that emerged from the police academy was made up almost exclusively of thugs and delinquents that were loyal to him only. Some of them received multiple promotions in record time in order to occupy key positions that he wanted to control.

What shocked many of us, veterans of the anti-Duvalier and pro-democracy movements, was the resurrection by Aristide of a "Tontons Macoutes"-like structure, the "chimeres", with a modern and more violent twist. Aristide decided to develop a paramilitary organization beholden only to him, which would serve as his shock troops for multiple purposes: 1) to cower the citizenry into submission and fear, 2) to maintain "discipline" in the slums so that these areas would always vote for him and support him, 3) to engage in illicit activities that would allow Aristide to earn extra income for political purposes. It is no secret, and certainly no surprise, that these organizations doubled as drug traffickin
g rings, often in cahoots with high-ranking members of the Haitian National Police. The names of these leaders are now part of our history: Paul Raymond, René Civil, Amiot Metayer (whose assassination by Odonel Paul sparked the Gonaives revolt which led to the resignation of Aristide), and so many others.

Economic Disaster
=================

Forgotten in the discussions regarding Aristide's true record is Aristide's dismal economic performance which contributed to the greatest slide into misery of the Haitian population since such statistics have been measured. Despite all of his claims, Aristide had no vision and no desire to lift the masses from their abject poverty. In fact, his real ambition as he confided to some people in his entourage was to become the richest and most powerful Haitian alive. So he neglected to develop meaningful economic policies. The results?

+ For three years running, the Executive failed to implement a budget matching the needs of the country, especially i
n the areas of education, health care and infrastructure.

+ GDP growth was negative throughout Aristide's presidency.

+ Corruption became even more rampant than before, with embezzlements and misappropriations of funds becoming the norm. Recent investigations into shady contracts at the state-owned electricity and telecommunication companies have revealed a pattern of shell companies obtaining no-bid, legal but unethical contracts on the strength of recommendations coming straight from Aristide himself. These companies are headed by businessmen close to Aristide, namely people like Jean-Marie Vorbe, Fred Beliard, Lesly Lavelanet (brother-in-law of his wife), etc.

+ Contrary to his assertion that he built 104 schools, Aristide in fact was Mr. anti-Education. He personally rejected the modernization of our educational curriculum and worked to make sure that the Ministry of Education would not function properly. He also politicized the Ministry by forcing the Director of National Exams to h
ire as testers and examiners many of his militant supporters who had no qualifications to grade national exams. This led to the strike of civil servants within the Ministry, a strike which was repressed by the police. In fact, the Education hero in this case is Mr. Preval (Aristide's hand-picked successor from 1996 to 2001) who, in spite of efforts by Aristide to sabotage his achievements, built more schools than any other President in our history. Mr. Aristide is claiming the achievement of another president in this case.

+ Aristide personally contracted for his security with an American private security company, the Steele Foundation, to the tune of $1.5 million per year. Notwithstanding the fact that it was a clear lack of respect for the Haitian National Police unit that was supposed to provide his security, this incredible contract was paid by Haitian taxpayers out of a meager budget which shortchanged many essential social services. It is estimated that the amount paid to the Steele Foundation c
ould have provided jobs for 1,500 additional teachers per year or covered the treatment of an additional 1,400 HIV-positive patients per year.

+ Instead of beefing its ministry of Foreign Affairs staff, Haiti paid $7 million to foreign lobbyists (Americans for the most part, many with ties to the Congressional Black Caucus.) To put it into perspective, the Dominican Republic, our neighbor and a much-wealthier country, spent only $1.2 million over the same period, with much more impressive results to boot. So why all this spending on expensive lobbyists? Was that the best use of Haitian taxpayers' monies? See:



+ Last but not least, the Aristide government encouraged the now-infamous Ponzi scheme that robbed Haitians out of 600 million gourdes (about US$30 million at the time) and wiped out the savings of the working poor and the lower middle class, the two
branches of our society that had the most to lose and the least protection in our society. This scheme, actively promoted by Aristide himself in 2001 in a bid to undermine the influence of the formal banking sector, collapsed dramatically by the end of 2002 with no effort by the financial authorities, the National Cooperative Council, or the Executive to prevent the collapse. Government officials accepted huge bribes from the cooperatives promoters to grant them safe passage to other countries so that they would not be prosecuted and could abscond with the millions they stole. We don't understand to this day Why the Aristide government couldn't promote a policy of inclusion of the less fortunate in the established banking sector instead, which is one of the better regulated and supervised industries in Haiti, or inclusion in the micro finance institutions which have developed an excellent track record in Haiti, is a mystery to us. Aristide promised to reimburse defrauded investors - which sent the wrong sig
nal by having the government bailout the promoters - and then RENEGED on the promise. Instead, the government arrested and jailed Rosemond Jean, the leader of a movement seeking justice for the cooperative members, on trumped-up charges of terrorism and illegal weapons possession.

For more details, see http://www.haitiprogres.com/2002/sm020724/eng07-24.html . Coming from a newspaper that supports Aristide, this is quite telling.

Drug Trafficking
================

While the problem of drug trafficking started in earnest in the early 1990's under the rule of the military dictators (1991-1994) with such notorious criminals as colonels Jean-Claude Paul and Michel François, the development of a narco-state really emerged under Aristide's rule. It became so blatant, with a number of Colombian drug dealers living the life in Haiti and the incredible rags-to-riches stories of a number of Aristide cronies, that one must wonder Aristide merely tolerated the drug trade or whether he was deeply
involved in it. At the end of the day, the outcome lies in the hands of a grand jury empanelled in Miami, Florida, which is looking into the issue in Haiti. As of this writing, the United States Drug Enforcement Agency has in custody more than a dozen individuals who were deeply implicated in the drug trade in Haiti. Noteworthy are:
+ Oriel Jean - personal chief of security for Aristide who was extradited from Canada
+ Jean Nesly Lucien - former chief of the Haitian National Police under Aristide
+ Evintz Brilliant - Head of the drug enforcement team of the Haitian National Police under Aristide
+ Rudy Therassan - former head of investigation of the Haitian National Police under Aristide
+ Hermione Leonard - former head of the West Department precinct under Aristide
+ Senator Fourel Celestin - who surrendered to US authorities directly in Haiti for fear of being assassinated by drug-dealing colleagues; Senator Celestin, a former army physician, was Mr. Aristide's close advisor from the tim
e he returned in 1994 and managed the National Place from October 1994 until February 1996.
+ Jacques Beaudouin Ketant - Haitian drug kingpin who was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list; Ketant financed many of Aristide's political campaign activities and paid "royalties" to most of the high-ranking staff of the Haitian National Police
+ Elie Aubert aka ED1 - another drug kingpin who came from nowhere to become a construction magnate; he financed the printing of all of Aristide's posters and banners for his 2000 presidential campaign.

With this in mind, you understand why it is difficult to stomach the many lies proffered by Aristide in your interview. You seem to accept his statements at face value, but I would submit that journalistic ethics would require you to investigate some of his claims. For the record, you may visit the following sites for additional information on the Aristide years:

+ Report published on February 4, 2003, by Merrill Smith, coordinator of the US Committee on Ref
ugees, entitled "DEMOCRACY UNRAVELING - Political Violence in Haiti 2002" This report can be found in Adobe Acrobat (PDF) format at the following address:



+ Read the following communiqué from the National Coalition on Haitian Rights, a well-respected Haitian human rights organization:



+ Just one tiny example of the gratuitous brutality of Aristide's chimeres. This event marked the beginning of the end for Aristide as his minions violated one of the few institutions that no leader in Haitian history (not even Duvalier nor the military) had ever touched: the state university.



When you take all of the above into account, you understand why the notion that Aristide presided over a democracy rings hollow. Democracy is not just about elections; Hitler was also democratically elected, after all. It is about the rule of law, the establishm
ent of solid institutions, freedom of _expression and of the press, respect of human rights and civil liberties, none of which we really enjoyed under Aristide. It is also said that he was democratically elected, but the November 26, 2000 elections were so rife with abnormalities, not to mention the very low turnout at the polls, that the "democratic" claim is questionable.

Finally, I believe that the debate over President Aristide's presence in South Africa is a red herring. President Mbeki - like CARICOM - has demonstrated to Haitians his allegiance to a man over a nation suffering under tyranny, and that is his prerogative. With the millions of dollars Aristide and his wife are controlling overseas, it is amazing that the South African government would use taxpayers' money to pay for his upkeep. Better you than us.

I hope that Aristide will be back in Haiti very soon ... to be tried for his crimes against the Haitian people, embezzlement and corruption, and maybe drug trafficking charges
. The investigations are continuing, and the revelations pouring in. It is only a matter of time before the indictments start rolling in.

Yours truly,

Roger "Rudolph" Milceus


----------------------------------

For those of you who have not read Ms. Isaacson article, click on the link below:

Big guns stoke war to prove blacks can't rule
Jean-Baptiste Aristide says in an interview that the UN, US and France are among the villains who impugn his name.
(Click here for the full story )

Visit for the more great online news and views.

Claudia

Post by Claudia » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:20 pm

The Sunday Independent article referred can be read at this address:

http://www.sunday.co.za/index.php?fArti ... ionId=1042

It is reproduced below:

Big guns stoke war to prove blacks can't rule
By Maureen Isaacson

The United Nations is a failure, says Jean Baptiste Aristide, the former Haitian president. And he is relieved that the United States-backed Organisation of American States is investigating his unlawful ousting.

Aristide fled Haiti on February 29 during a coup he insists "had the blessing of the UN".

"For me the investigation means we are standing for truth and we are still for the same truth."

Truth and lies are the two categories that cleave Aristide's world and he would like to set the record straight against "the huge international disinformation campaign" that paints him as a despotic scoundrel.

Aristide says the campaign is funded by economic and politica
l forces who have paid $60 million (about R390 million) a year - last year it was $76 million - to slur his good name and that of the world's first country to be liberated from slavery.

Among the villains of this story are France, Haiti's old colonial master, and the US, which, Aristide says, stoke violence to prove that black people are incapable of self rule.

"Is it because we are black that they don't want the truth to emerge from us?" he asks.

"Is it because Haiti has so many economic possibilities that today they want us to be militarised, destroyed?"

"They", says Aristide, are the intellectuals, academics and writers and the world's great political and economic powers, "who spent 200 years hiding the truth regarding the first black independent country in the world".

No wonder they wanted to prevent the bicentennial celebrations that Aristide enjoyed while still in the hot seat in January this year, and which he says Mbeki was "intelligent" enough to attend.

r
Aristide also wants me to know that as we speak hundreds and thousands of non-violent protesters, their t-shirts bearing the imprint of his face, are calling for his return. Many are being killed for less.

His people still continue to die for their democratic vote, he says. He reminds me of the slogan: "one human being, one vote... A bag of rice when I left Haiti cost Haitian $150 today it is Haitian $500."

Aristide is a small man with a big personality and a unique story. Twice deposed as president of his country, he has landed on our shores as a guest with Mildred Trouillot, his wife, and their daughters, Christine, 7, and Michaelle, 5.

Our invitation followed a request by the Caribbean Community and the African Union. Of course, he cannot say how long he is going to stay and lay to rest the fears of some South Africans that President Thabo Mbeki's new best friend is here for a free ride, forever.

After all, it is only a few days since he arrived at the guest house in Waterk
loof Ridge, outside Pretoria, with its searingly beautiful view of a slice of "the mother continent".

"Coming back I feel those 15 000 slaves who were brought from Africa to the Americas and the Caribbean return now through me". South Africa is his "home from home". Aristide is a descendant of peasant stock from Port-Salut, born July 15 1953.

"When I am here I feel that President Mbeki and his government, the South African people are doing what our African forefathers did: opening the doors. We are still sharing those same human values, not that that means black and black, no, no, no, we are talking about something which crosses colour and nationalities."

This is the transcendent language of a man forced to become a professional exile and to carry his home within. His inner life is rich. In one of his seven published books he wrote: "Je suis ce que j'etais, pour

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:05 am

Please Isabelle,tell me:Who is roger milceus that you like to post so much?
Sorry, I really don't know who he is.
It seems that he represents the majority of haitians!
What an EGO

Isabelle_

Sources and responses

Post by Isabelle_ » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:26 am

Can you both explain what is phony about the sources used?
What exactly is your beef with the sources and Roger?

I guess that both of you are the only people who have the RIGHT to post on this message board and that anyone who does not share the same views as you two on Haitian current affairs have to be labeled this or that.

If this Message Board is strictly to be a leftist and pro-lavalas one that it should be announced to all that have the intention to post and they will refrain from offending you two.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2153
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:03 pm

Post by admin » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:41 pm


IsabelleF, Leonel and Zanfanginen have both reacted unfavorably to Roger Milceus's article, and that is as much their right as it was yours to post it in the first place. No one has to react favorably to what you post. They certainly could, if they wanted to. However, as I read their responses, I did not see either of them attack you personally. So, your response to Leonel and Zanfanginen, as well as your insinuations about this forum, are unwarranted in my opinion. Why couldn't you just take the time to respond to their objections? They have the right to object, wouldn't you say?

This constant battle between Lavalas and non-Lavalas factions, the labelling of every single effort made by one Haitian or a group of Haitians as "Lavalas" or "Opposition" is truly tiresome. WE ARE ALL HAITIANS AND WE ARE ALL UNDER OCCUPATION TODAY, AREN'T WE? How long into the 21st century are we going to continue poi
nting the finger of blame at each other???

I found several weaknesses in both Mr. Milceus's letter and Ms. Isaacson's original article (I am glad that Claudia posted it. You probably should have posted it too, even before posting Mr. Miceus's response, for the purpose of clarifying the context of that post). I intended to present what I think are clear weaknesses in both presentations. However, I am currently working on a project that is taking much of my time and I reserve the right to come back and do so later. In the meantime, I am delighted to see other people respond. The more we engage in dialogue, the better off we will be.

I am the administrator of this forum, no one else. When I read your post, I noted that several of the links were not working. I meticulously edited it to activate the links. On two of them, you had placed an extra period inside the url address (like two dots in a row). Another two were not working for reasons that I have already covered in the FAQ. I took
the time to activate the links for you. It's not because I necessarily subscribe to any or all the points made in the article, but it is certainly YOUR RIGHT to share with us what you think is another "outstanding" article by Roger Milceus. Just as it is Leonel and Zanfanginen's right to disagree with it, even absolutely. Had they attacked you for posting it, I would be the first to defend you. But based on the evidence, you were NOT personally attacked, only the content of the post. I encourage you to re-read their comments, and not take it so "personal". They asked for clarifications, it would be great FOR ALL OF US, if you provided them.

Isabelle_

Response to Guysanto and Mr. Jean-Babptiste

Post by Isabelle_ » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:15 pm

Guysanto:

Points well taken. I will patiently wait for your post on the two positions. Thank you for correcting the URLs.

On Mr. Jean-Baptiste's Post to me

Please explain how the post by Mr. Jean-Baptiste is not personal. I do not see him come up with facts and/or documents/arguments to refute the position of Mr. Milceus. Why is he delving into the personal by asking me about Mr. Milceu's background? Furthermore, I provided Mr. Milceus' email address and Mr. Jean Babptiste is free to email and inquire about his background.

Where has he stated in his post that he represents the majority of Haitians? I read the following statement “it pains me to see that a man who has betrayed the aspirations of the vast majority of Haitians.” But I would not be the one to interpret for Mr. Milceus.

I would really enjoy an exchange rather than the post of Mr
. Jean-Babtiste which has absolutely no substance. It does not contain content, or well articulated arguments like yours, or opinions. This is the typical who's this guy and as long as I do not know him, I can only make empty statements.

The post of Mr. Jean-Baptiste is equal to the following:
ROGER MILCEUS = EGOMANIAC

Frankly, Zanfanginen's post does not warrant an answer from me.

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2153
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:03 pm

Post by admin » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:25 am


[quote]On Mr. Jean-Baptiste's Post to me

Please explain how the post by Mr. Jean-Baptiste is not personal.[/quote]
Actually, IsabelleF, it's not. At least not to you (you would have to be Mr. Milceus himself, for this to stick). Leonel just made two points in his post. This is what he said:

[quote]1. Please Isabelle, tell me: Who is roger milceus that you like to post so much?[/quote] and
[quote]2. It seems that he represents the majority of haitians! What an EGO [/quote]
I don't see anything wrong with the first point, as Marilyn just explained. Who is Roger Milceus? This does not mean that the readers have to know about his family, his shoe size or dirty laundry. Not at all. But since he is putting forth some rather elaborate political opinions, it is absolutely natural for people to wonder about h
is political or administrative background. This simply cannot be considered unduly "personal".

As for the second quote, that's Leonel's impression from what he read. I agree with you that this is not an argument. Leonel is merely stating his gut reaction to Mr. Milceus's text. At least, that's my interpretation. What exactly from the text (or texts) made him feel that way? That, ONLY LEONEL CAN SAY. I would not venture to guess, and besides Leonel can speak for himself. In any case, even that second point cannot be considered a personal attack on you, just on Mr. Milceus (and that's not even a serious one... The vast majority of Haitian men I know have oversized egos. Not excluding yours truly.) However, there is a difference between commenting:

a. What an EGO

and

b. ROGER MILCEUS = EGOMANIAC

Any sane person can have a large ego. In fact, I am absolutely certain that all of our national heroes had large egos. To be an egomaniac is to go crazy with an extremely di
storted view of oneself. Did Leonel wish to imply that? I don't know. I really do not know.

All I can say is that we should all make an effort not to pass judgments too quickly about each other, and be patient enough to say to each other: "What did you mean by that?"

Practically every time you say "What did you mean by that?", you will get a clarification (or a retraction). Most often, it's just not worth it to get mad (especially when the world - particularly Haiti, Columbia, Venezuela, Iraq, et j'en passe - is crumbling to pieces all around us).

I'll get back to the posts in question in more detail, later when I find the time. However, so not to leave you in suspense, I will summarize my opinion right now: Ms Isaacson's article raised some interesting issues that transcend Aristide and even go beyond Haiti, but it suffered again and again from factual inaccuracy. Mr. Milceus, on the other hand, seemed interested only in the opportunity to dress down Aristide, one more time. H
e did not so much respond to Ms Isaacson's article so much as he is prosecuting Aristide. To me at least, it appears that that is Mr. Milceus's chief, if not exclusive, interest. In fact, he could hardly contain his glee when salivating at the prospect of possible charges that may be brought up against the President. To his credit, Roger Milceus addressed some very serious issues on which Aristide's presidency will be judged and should be judged. To his discredit, he simply presented every allegation ever made against Aristide as fact, with no burden of proof. After reading Milceus's answer, there is no doubt in my mind that he would gladly be Aristide's judge, jury, and executioner.

I prefer a more dispassionate approach than I detect in Mr. Milceus's response, which indeed makes me wonder who he really is. No offense intended.

JustinFelux

Post by JustinFelux » Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:24 pm

[quote]But what truly interests me here are the figures of $218 million sent to France by Haiti and $78 million sent to Haiti by France (??) (to help Haiti's Revolution against France???) [/quote]

The French can't get a break in the media nowadays.

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:23 am

Sorry it took me so long to get back cause I was away.

Anyway, my name is leonel jean-baptiste not babtiste. As you can see, this is my real name and adress; for I have nothing to hide.

Anyway, I really appreciate the fact that a lot of wonderful people from the forum stood for me. Thank you!

I only asked about Mr. Milceus truthfully, I do not know about him. It was a simple question which I thought was not censured. I don't think that I've used any profanity. If I did, mille regrets.

I would not have offended anyone intentionally and especially, Isabelle.

In any Society, there are Intellectuals, eloquent speakers, Lawyers, Writers (good or bad), Illiterates etc. Especially, to take part on any forum at WOH, Mr GUY S. ANTOINE did not mention that One was supposed to be eloquent or a good writer to ask questions or participate in any discussions or subject.

Isabelle, I am not here to show my intellect b
y quoting others, but I am here to learn from all of you and try to contribute, that is if you want it. Obviously, you really think that only people who are adequate or SAVVY can be part of your table. You are so smart or intelligent therefore I can not ask any question on whatever or whomever you've quoted. Everyday I am learning new stuff from everybody, and I still don't know.

I was thinking of the right way to defend my position then I realized that I didn't do anything wrong. I guess, I don't have a right to ask question, for you will be offended.

Ironic and absurd that may sound, you only need questions from people who already know the answers.

I don't have to go any further, cause it is a waste of time...
THE QUEEN CANNOT MINGLE WITH COMMONERS??

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2153
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:03 pm

Points of moderation

Post by admin » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:26 am


Leonel and IsabelleF, allow me PLEASE to moderate just a little bit.

We're getting far away from the original subject. Let us please try not to turn this into a personal confrontation. It's really not necessary, regardless of who started what. It is my job as editor to point this out, because I do want the forum to succeed.
  • No, the forum guidelines do not mention that one has to be left-leaning or "Lavalas" to participate. Whether most people are left-leaning or "Lavalas", I don't really care. Personally, I am anti-Bush and I am anti-coup. But I am willing to debate anyone who is pro-Bush and pro-coup. When it comes to political fanaticism in Haiti, I believe that it is a cancer on our nation. Perhaps an inoperable cancer... because it has gone and continues to grow at an unabated pace. In the U.S. the pro-Bush people and the
    anti-Bush people will get together in a minute to defend America and protect America's fundamental interests, even if at other times they do not see eye to eye. In Haiti, a political fanatic considers anyone who does not share his ideas a devil, fit to be tied (and to be hung). Haitian people never seem to unite for the defense of their country. Haitian people (in general) will not stand together to fight their enemies or to further Haiti's fundamental interests. Haitian people see as "enemy combatants" their own brothers if they do not belong or defend to the death the narrow interests of a political party. Not every Haitian is like this, of course, but every Haitian knows what I am talking about. It's part of our reality, part of our day-to-day life. Some of us seem to live only to hate others, and reach the highest positions in government not to serve all the people but to prosecute their opponents. However, you don't even have to be in a position of power to experience this. Think about your
    own personal experience with most Haitians and tell me if much of it has not been based on sheer political fanaticism. Yes, I repeat, this is a cancer on Haiti. A cancer that keeps on growing, and I wish we could get our heads together to formulate a plan on how to stop it. Big dream!!
    [/*:m]
  • No, the forum guidelines do not ask that someone be eloquent or a good writer to ask questions or participate in any discussion or subject. I am particular to language... I love good writing, accurate spelling, proper syntax, and an elegant form. Call me anal retentive, but I add a space after every comma, every punctuation mark, and I do care a lot about presentation. I make liberal use of spacing between paragraphs (and certainly not BEFORE punctuation marks but AFTER). But much more than those fine points of writing, I love good ideas. I place content above presentation. I will choose poorly presented but good arguments any day over masterly shows of em
    pty-headedness. This is why I generally cannot suffer to read the long rhetorical pieces, written in French 99% of the time, by our Haitian intellectuals. By the time you finish them, all you can say is: "this guy really knows his French; but he has not said a single thing of substance." And when infrequently, that Haitian intellectual says something of substance, his personal or political behavior completely betrays what he has dissertated about. It's like this: "L'union fait la force!" (but fuck 'em, I want money, prestige, and power, damn the brotherhood). [/*:m]
Leonel, from what I can see, IsabelleF got upset over what she considers your criticism of Roger Milceus - the fact that you mentioned that he has quite an EGO. However, she did not say that you had to be a good writer, she did not say that you had to be an intellectual, and the last sentence in your note may in fact be considered a personal attack. I understand that you may be referring to "Queen Isabelle", b
ut "Isabelle" is just a name and we really do not know anything about the social attitude of "IsabelleF" to indict her in that fashion. All we know is that she got upset over a judgment that you made, and that's all. I am not here to defend IsabelleF (I am sure that she can do so, herself) but all that I am asking is that we stop antagonizing each other over the smallest points.Please get back on track. In my earlier message in this thread, I critiqued in great detail some of the ideas (and factual inaccuracies) of the original Sunday Independent article. I also found Mr. Milceus's critique too partisan to my taste, as he seemed primarily, almost exclusively, interested in bashing Aristide any way he could, rather than formulating a true response to the general points of the article. To me, this is a clear sign of the sort of partisanship that is killing us every day as a people. Those people who hated Aristide so, let's see what they are really made of. Let's CHALLENGE EACH OTHER
TO DO BETTER than the people we are criticizing. To silence or kill a political opponent does not stop one Haitian child from going to bed on an empty stomach. It does not create jobs and does not advance literacy. It seems to me that our huge and passionate political struggles worsen the situation each and every time, only making fools of all of us as a people and preventing us from becoming a nation on anything but paper.

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:45 am

Again, I only asked a simple question not because I am a lavalas supporter (far from being true) but innocently, I DO NOT KNOW THE GUY...

Anyone can witness that I ask questions to Justin F, Guy or whomever in almost every WOH forum without any incident or personal confrontation. And, I believe that Marilyn understood very well why I wanted to know about the guy who seems well articulated.

About the EGO, we all do have Ego. But, I was referring to one of the quotes: "A man who has betrayed the aspirations of the vast majority of HAITIANS".

It reminds me of FOX news, prior to the "Coup", was showing the Majority of Haitians against Aristide (Apaid, Evans Paul, etc).

I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Being personal, well I reacted to this quote: "I would enjoy...than the post of Mr Jean babtiste which has absolutely no SUBSTANCE bla bla bla..."

Does one need substance for a question?

Anyway, Guy
you are right. We have other enemies than ourselves, we have more common enemies than one could imagine.

N.B. For the record, I did not like Aristide, but, he was elected president for 5 years.

A BAS COUP D'ETAT, always.

Post Reply