Le parti du président dominicain soutiendra Evans Paul

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Post by admin » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:59 am

A la de sa lo pri pa pa !

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:45 am

Tout moun gen foli prezidan...

By any means necessary, Kplim vle fè on ti kou tou.

Ki pwogram yo pou devlòpman peyi a? Ki jan yo pwal aproche tout pwoblèm kritik ke ayiti ap konfronte jounen jodi a?

Lamayòt m pa pè w se moun ou ye.

L'union fait la force,
leonel

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Post by admin » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:04 am

Leonel, men sa mwen pwopoze:

Annou kenbe remak nou yo sou kandidati K-Plim nan ribrik "Evans Paul, candidat à la présidence d'Haiti" ki sou menm fowòm "Re: Elections" an.

Nan liy diskisyon sa, mwen ta renmen konnen sa nou panse sou entèvansyon pati dominiken prezidan Leonel Frenandez lan fè nan konjekti eleksyon an Ayiti yo.

Eske yo gen dwa fè kalite entèvansyon sa yo nan politik pèp ayisyen?

Eske nou gen dwa fè tip entèvansyon sa yo nan politik pèp dominiken?

Eske George Bush ak Jacques Chirac gen dwa chwazi kandida pa yo tou e fè nou konnen ouvètman kiyès yo chwazi pou nou?

Eske se paske Ayiti se Ayiti ki fè tout lòt etranje san vègògn kapab di nou ki sa yo panse ki pi bon pou nou e kiyès yo panse ki pi bon pou nou tou?

Ki enpak ou panse apui pati dominiken ki sou pouvwa a kapab genyen sou eleksyon lakay?

Ki wòl K-Plim jwe nan solisite soutyen dominiken ki sou pouvwa yo? E si se li ki ta
vin prezidan, ki redevans lap genyen fas a gouvènman dominiken an oswa pati politik dominiken ki gen pouvwa a aktyèlman?

Anpil kesyon, men m ap mande tèt mwen si se mwen sèl nouvèl sa flank yon kalòt maten an. Adye Wida!

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:23 pm

[quote]A la de sa lo pri pa pa ![/quote]
Guy, ou fè m ri men ou poko wè anyen la a....

Kplim goumen ak jnclod divalye l tap rele " debafweeee " sou radyo kasik. Li goumen ak jeneral lame yo apre 86. Avril te fè bat li byen bat, kase zo nan kò l. Li te ede prezante goug an 87, e aristide en 90. Li kwè ke kounye a se tou pa l.....Sèl pwoblèm ki genyen sèke kplim pral mande pou yo respekte manda senkan pa l la si l rive monte sou fotèy boure a.

gelin

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Post by admin » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:07 am

[quote]“ Que le meilleure gagne!! Is not a motto in politics.

I want my man to win by any means necessary! That is the answer![/quote]
You have never been more eloquent, Michel.

[quote]A foreign government could support a presidential candidate as long as the support (financial) wouldn't shift the balance toward the candidate advantage at the expense of the voice of the people.[/quote]
How naive! Keep asking for an inch, and see if you do not end up getting the "full bwa" pretty soon.

In fact, it has happened again and again and again. But we keep asking for teasers. Maybe we have not gotten enough of being screwed.

[quote]Evans Paul is a bon kamarad, a militant from the start. He paid his dues, and he fought courageously in the Haitian political coliseum. He deserves a chance.[/quote]
And what of his administrative abilities: Do they matter one little bit? Show me his accomplishments, if any.

[quote]As a progenitor of the Lavalas movement, he should be considered as an option. [/quote]
Should all the progenitors of the Lavalas movement be considered "an option" ? Let's draw a list of those "progenitors", so that we know all of our options.

[quote]If our neighbors including D.R. endorse him, that's a good sign. It's better to have friends than enemies.[/quote]
No matter if those are not the friends of the Haitian people, as long as they are "the friends" of the candidate or the President or the Prime Minister. In this case, Gérard Latortue should stay Prime Minister for Life. He has all the friends we will ever need: The U.S., France, Canada. He was endorsed by the entire "international community" (EU, US/UN ; forget about Venezuela, the African Union, Caricom, and other would be friends of this world that a
re traditionally not counted as members of the "international community"). In any case, we've got the friends with real power.

Why should we endanger those friendships with elections that may have the virtue of bringing another populist to power ("until we get it right", that is) ? It's better to have friends than enemies, you say, so let's skip the charade and stay with the friends we've got.

And in case, you missed it, that indeed was sarcasm, in the literary sense.

[quote]The big question should be: Can he win? [/quote]
There you go, the hallmark of a good leader! Win at all costs.

[quote]Go for it K-Plim, and God bless you!! [/quote][/quote]
God bless HAITI, Michel ! With so many Friends, how can she ever fail!

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:23 am

You know, I've started to write something on K-Plim because I remember when he used to come to my neighborhood in 1980 until the day he went into hiding, if I'm not mistaken in November 1981. I decided to pull it out for personal reasons...

Michel, sorry man. But you need to do your homework on what was happening in Haiti from the Duvalier's era til Today. You wrote:[quote]He began as a street agitator, rode the coat tails of phenomenon to become an internationally recognized politician.

He became one of the chief advisors to Father Jean-Bertrand Aristide, a still more popular national sensation for his priestly activism.

When the latter announced he was running for president, Paul became his campaign manager.

He was one of the youngest and most capable organizers in the newly formed Lavalas Movement.[/quote]
Where did you get those facts? The Lavalas movement/OPL was a way to deny Bazin the
favorite candidate of the US. Therefore there were two choices. One was Father Jean-Juste (help me on that, Jaf or Marilyn) who was killed by some thugs with Youri Latortue in the vicinities. The second was the one and only Populist: Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

You should know the rest of the story. Anyway, remember that I've told you about OPL coalition with Lavalas. OPL was very qualified, but Aristide was the Man. So, I don't see how K-Plim would be the youngest in the Lavalas/OPL movement.

Michel wrote:

[quote]Aristide gave his personal endorsement in the Port-au-Prince mayoral elections to a folk singer Manno Charlemagne, a political neophyte. Ohh boy!! “La reconnaissance est une lâcheté » [/quote]
Wrong once more, Aristide made that move because based on the facts, K-Plim was a "Tambou de Bouda" during Aristide's exile in the US in 1991... Besides, Manno Charlemagne had more people who would vote for him instead of K-plim who everyone knew was an Opportunist
.

Now, about the Mayoral election, when losing, your gentleman K-Plim showed once again by attacking the opponent personally. Then, before leaving office, his administration basically trashed the place and left the place pratically empty. I personally had to give a Word Processor machine to the Mairie de Port-au-Prince post K-Plim. Do you see how Progressist and Patriotic your Man was?

People change, that is the truth. But, in the mind of the masses that Defacto/Apaid/K-Plim/Convergence/Demobilize killed their democratic votes.

Bref, if you go back, K-plim's wife was also Mayor. That is another story which would prove to you who we are dealing WITH. About his famous beating also, people in Haiti knew the reason behind it. His ti sousou attitude, playing with the Opposition and the people in power at that time was the trigger of his beating.

By the way, did you know about the first Guy Philippe's attempt of Coup d'etat on Aristide's second term? After failing, K-Plim was suppo
sed to wait for the perpetrators by "Rex Theatre"...

Anyway, Michel, like I said before, let's wait for that famous November election and see what or who your bosses in DC want???

Washington pa janm al dèyè on moun valab nan nenpòt peyi. Yo toujou al dèyè Kandida djon djon (Ou konn kot djon djon toujou leve, bò...)

L'union fait la Force,
leonel

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Post by admin » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:58 pm

Leonel, I am sure you do not mean Father Jean-Juste...

K-Plim's wife was also mayor? I do not recall. When did she get her turn in office and how?

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:13 pm

[quote]...K-Plim's wife was also mayor? I do not recall. When did she get her turn in office and how?[/quote]
Yes, she did get her turn as mayor. As always things did not finish well....

gelin

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:44 pm

Serge, Thank you. I got Jean-Marie mixed up with Jean-Juste. I offer my deepest apology...

Well Michel, tough luck. That is the price a presidential candidate has to suffer.

One thing that we all should agree upon: K-Plim was a big voice against the Democratically elected President.-

Everyone would love to be President. A la traka papa!

L'union fait la force
leonel

T-dodo

Post by T-dodo » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:56 pm

[quote]Nan liy diskisyon sa, mwen ta renmen konnen sa nou panse sou entèvansyon pati dominiken prezidan Leonel Frenandez lan fè nan konjonkti eleksyon an Ayiti yo.

Eske yo gen dwa fè kalite entèvansyon sa yo nan politik pèp ayisyen?

Eske nou gen dwa fè tip entèvansyon sa yo nan politik pèp dominiken?[/quote]

[quote]Ki wòl K-Plim jwe nan solisite soutyen dominiken ki sou pouvwa yo? E si se li ki ta vin prezidan, ki redevans lap genyen fas a gouvènman dominiken an oswa pati politik dominiken ki gen pouvwa a aktyèlman?[/quote]

[quote]Could a foreign government say it [the candidate he favors]publicly? Sure, and why not?
[quote]If our neighbors including D.R. endorse him, that's a good sign. It's better to have friends than enemies.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Michel,
I cannot see how t
his is a good sign! I just read the discussions that this thread triggered, which is why I am reacting so late. I cannot talk as competently as you all did about K-Plim administration. Based on impressions I cannot back up, it is not a good omen for Haiti if using his public image in past political events as a barometer for future actions by him as public administrator. But, I want to go back to the interference of a foreign country in the elections of another.

Unlike Michel, I think it is a bad sign that the Dominican Republic openly is backing up a candidate in Haiti's elections. As far as I can remember, diplomatically, foreign governments do not openly choose a candidate in another country's elections, even though they are always involved covertly. This is considered interference with the internal affairs of a country. Usually, when there is accusation of involvement, the head of diplomacy of the accused country usually quickly issues a denial supporting the rights of the citizens of the country
to make their own choice. The fact that the Dominicans are doing it so openly is a sign how bad our situation is, even diplomatically. We have become so inoffensive that even the DR does not even bother to be diplomatic about us. This is the continuation of our journey in the annals of infamy in world history. Toussaint Louverture, Jean-Jacques Dessalines and many others who gave their lives for our country must be turning in their graves.

Jean-Marie

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Post by admin » Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:07 pm

Michel, you are right about those credits to Cali Ruchala that you weaved in, in your text. However, I would like to strongly discourage this type of (playful, arty, teaser) referencing, because it leads very much to confusion, as you can clearly tell by Marilyn's reaction.

If you are using someone else's text for whatever valid reason you may have, make that plainly obvious from the start. What you did was this: You used Ruchala's text almost word for word, without the use of any artifacts (such as quotes, quote box, italics, bolding... ABSOLUTELY NO VISUAL CLUE to differentiate where Ruchala's text started and where it ended). To make matters worse, you interspersed a couple of your own comments in the middle of the borrowed text. And then at the very end, you say: [quote]Ou pa fouti di ke se mwen ki ekri homage sa yo, se bon zanmi ou Cali Ruchala ki ekri' l.

Who is laughing now?:-) [/quote]
Obviou
sly, Michel, you are light-hearted and you wanted to enjoy a good laugh. Nothing wrong with that, except that it clearly violates the norms for referencing, in just about any publishing venue. Even on a forum, we must maintain some minimum standards:

1) if you quote, and unless you clearly indicate that you are paraphrasing, you should indicate your references, up front and in straightforward fashion.

2) don't change what the person said through interpretation or paraphrasing, unless you clearly state that is what you are doing. Words can be too easily misinterpreted, so don't speak on behalf of someone else, as though that is what the person actually said word for word.

3) Clearly separate your words from the other author's text. There are a number of ways to do that. And above all, don't insert your own words, smack in the middle of what that other person said, unless, once more, the demarcation is plainly
evident.

Am I making up those rules? I do not think so. That is my own expression of rules of communications that I think are self-evident. If anyone thinks that I am wrong, please feel free to challenge them. However, I would highly encourage you not to do this in the future, as it creates undue confusion, only for the purpose of your own amusement.

Now to an altogether different matter: If Evans Paul's wife was mayor of Port-au-Prince, I think that is just as much part of the public record as Hillary Clinton being the junior Senator from the State of New York. If someone ever asked the full name of Bill Clinton's wife, who was very much in the public eye, during Bill's governatorial and presidential campaigns, you would clearly not equate this with asking whether Hillary Clinton ever had an abortion. I appreciate your attempt at moderation, because we clearly must stay within respectable bounds when discussing any public figure in Haiti or any candidate for the Presidency
of Haiti, but asking for the name of Evans Paul's wife who was Mayor of Port-au-Prince (QUITE AN ACHIEVEMENT FOR A HAITIAN WOMAN, I THINK ! ) or for the name of Leslie Manigat's wife who was senator of the Republic of Haiti, does not constitute a breach of decency.

For Padel, I found out that Evans Paul's wife's name was Mrs. Irène Ridoré. I truly do not know anything else about her. However, she held a position of considerable distinction. I do hope that she served her office well.

That said, I have no interest whatsoever in the indiscretions raised by Michel in his message. That was never a problem on "Ann Pale", where we have always discussed issues in an intelligent and respectful manner. There is no reason to think that because of Evans Paul, we were about to change our manners.

Finally, please Michel, stop exaggerating. Nobody has been "slaughtered" on this forum. People have the right to voice their concerns about this or that candidate. The
y can also point to their shortcomings. But that is the point of this forum. Don't confuse it with character assassination. Unless you can specifically show where ANYONE ON THIS FORUM has indulged in character assassination or other unfair and abusive tactic, there is no reason to cry WOLF (as you did).

Remember, nobody has to like anybody else. Not Evans Paul, not Manigat, not Aristide, not Gourgue, not Duvalier, not Latortue, not Boniface, etc... They are all public figures. If any of them wants to be president, they had better expect a lot of scrutiny. We are not out to "slaughter" anyone. But we absolutely do not have to embrace anyone either. Embracing a particular candidate is a personal choice, but it would be profoundly naive to think that any candidate for the highest public office is going to get a free ride here. Not in this crowd. But this does not mean that we do not love them all, as Haitian brothers and sisters.

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:25 am

AMEN, Guy!
leonel

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:03 pm

[quote]...on "Ann Pale", where we have always discussed issues in an <U>intelligent and respectful manner</U>.[/quote]
Isn't that all we need on a forum, especially here? For myself, I would not waste my time in a place with no mutual respect and no constructive debate. After all, we have to learn from one another but it must be done according to the rules of the game.

gelin

Cali Ruchala

Post by Cali Ruchala » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:10 pm

Greetings,

A few years back, Windows on Haiti had a much different forum than this one. I remember posting there and being advised that it was more or less inactive, so I'm glad to have come across this new (to me anyway) forum - thanks to the member who emailed me about it.

Re: my profile of Evans Paul, it was written last summer and my main intention was to give readers who have maybe never been to Haiti an idea who some of these people were. Fools were using Prosper Avril and his ridiculous book as a serious source on "insecurity" in Haiti. While demolishing Avril (his career as a latter-day self-published literati was just too funny to resist), I figured I may as well put together short profiles on some of the other figures.

From what I understand, American "activists" or "advisors" or whatever they call themselves these days have been working hard to try to get every political party except what's left of Fanmi Lavalas
to unite behind Paul (which is the kiss of death to Latortue). I spoke with one of them, who apparently thought I was just a busybody (parenthetically, it's amazing how willing they are to run their mouths when anyone who doesn't look Haitian comes along).

They're working through the same fronts as before: IRI, NDI, and USIP, plus a few ready-made NGOs with a limited shelf-life and impressive boards of directors. The announcement by the Dominicans, from what I was led to believe, was intended to impress several very specific Haitian individuals.

I asked why they were bothering with a united front when two huge interests--the ex-soldiers and lavalassiens--couldn't care less about petty politicking, and the united opposition together wouldn't get the support of more than 25% of the voters in the best case scenario. I don't know for sure--I didn't get a straight answer--but I was led to believe that a few of those individuals that were supposed to be impressed by the Dominican "endorsement"
of Paul are prominent ex-soldiers. Take that for what you will.


Best,

Cali

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Post by admin » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:27 am

[quote]By the way, have you review some CDs lately?

. . .

Anyway Serge, I am looking for a record from Les Pachas du Canape Vert. I don't know if they ever produced one. Les freres Baltazar may have been their manager at one point. And I am also looking for a CD from Annette Auguste aka So Ann. I heard her songs for the first time during a Pacifica Radio program with Amy Goodman.[/quote]
Interesting choices, Michel. I too would like to hear a CD from Annette Auguste, if one is currently available... though I would much prefer to hear that Justice be done in her case, as in the case of all Lavalas party members which the interim, de facto, and unconstitutional government of Haiti has thrown in jail, with the same methodology used by the U.S. government with respect to the detainees at Guantanamo; instances where all previously established standards of national and international law for detainmen
t and court processes are thrown out of the window by an unchecked executive branch of government.

However, I need to point out that I went to great lengths to establish the current Ann Pale structure. Surely, you must know that we have a Music and CD Review forum category, where your requests would be more naturally entertained. Please use it in the future for your music interests.

[quote]Before closing I would like to thank Cali for coming to my rescue.[/quote]
First, I want to use this occasion to welcome Cali Ruchala to this relatively new Windows on Haiti forum. But I think that I missed something. How did Cali come to your rescue, Michel? What arguments were made and supported? Perhaps, you can rescue me on that one, Michel.

Post by » Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:52 pm

[quote]I believe Les Pachas did have an album.Whether it is on CD, I do not know, I have never seen it. Annette Auguste (Sò Ann) had a couple of long playing albums. I have one, but I do not know if it was put on CD. One place that could be checked in New York is Marc Records, who carries a lot of old Haitian music on CD, and maybe Geronimo Record. Marc Record is in Brooklyn, and Geronimo is in Miami and New York. Geronimo Records had a store on Hillside Av. in Queens, but I believe it was moved recently.[/quote]
Serge and Michel, since you both reside in Maryland, maybe you should get together to discuss your music interests. In the meantime, I have an elections forum to run here... ;-) !

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